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 The saga continues 
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Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:59 am
Posts: 308
Post Re: The saga continues
WS1234 wrote:
i find it very hard to trust these treatments abroad without more people (real people) sharing success stories. I've heard maybe 2 about this guy but hard to confirm whats real and what's BS.



Maybe we can post a separate forum regarding this particular treatment in case someone have tried it or someone knows anybody who tried the treatment


Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:21 am
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Post Re: The saga continues
I have another 18 days of treatment here. If there was any infection it should be eradicated. I'm going to submit my semen to Bedford Labs when I return to the US and I'm off antibiotics for at least 1 month. If I'm clean I won't be going back for round 2. Dr Georgiadis has been very thorough and seems to be an expert on diagnosing and treating the issue. If you have a proven infection he's definitely worth a try. There's nothing quick or easy about the treatment though.


Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 am
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Post Re: The saga continues
LabMonkey333 wrote:
I have another 18 days of treatment here. If there was any infection it should be eradicated. I'm going to submit my semen to Bedford Labs when I return to the US and I'm off antibiotics for at least 1 month. If I'm clean I won't be going back for round 2. Dr Georgiadis has been very thorough and seems to be an expert on diagnosing and treating the issue. If you have a proven infection he's definitely worth a try. There's nothing quick or easy about the treatment though.



Good luck on your journey to recovery Labmonkey. Please update us with your recovery status, this will help us sufferers to determine if we need to consider this treatment option. How long have you been suffering from CP? Mine it's been 6 months and Im looking for every option to treat this as early as I can.


Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:45 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
Labmonkey,,

Any updates would be great ?


Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:50 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
I have a little less than 2 weeks remaining in Greece. The doctor has me back on azithromyacin and we are combining it with Bactrim taken twice daily. The good news is that the ecoli is sensitive to just about every antibiotic there is, with the exception of penicillin type drugs. This is my first time taking Bactrim and I may decide to take it for a couple months when I return home if I feel that it's working. The doctor wants me to return for another month, but I need to avoid that if possible since I'm out of vacation time.

One patient here who's had prostatitis for about 35 years from a staphylococcus infection is about 90% cured, so don't lose hope!


Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:58 am
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Post Re: The saga continues
LabMonkey333 wrote:
I have a little less than 2 weeks remaining in Greece. The doctor has me back on azithromyacin and we are combining it with Bactrim taken twice daily. The good news is that the ecoli is sensitive to just about every antibiotic there is, with the exception of penicillin type drugs. This is my first time taking Bactrim and I may decide to take it for a couple months when I return home if I feel that it's working. The doctor wants me to return for another month, but I need to avoid that if possible since I'm out of vacation time.

One patient here who's had prostatitis for about 35 years from a staphylococcus infection is about 90% cured, so don't lose hope!


thanks for the update LabMonkey, Bactrim is an old generation of antibiotics created back in 1940's but it is very effective and has a strong anti-inflammatory properties. Every time I have a relapse this is what my urologist prescribed to me and i'm responding well to it. My main issue is sometimes I do get flare ups from time to time.


Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:26 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
WS1234 wrote:
i find it very hard to trust these treatments abroad without more people (real people) sharing success stories. I've heard maybe 2 about this guy but hard to confirm whats real and what's BS.


I agree. Greece and China, wouldn't be my pick for top notch medical knowledge or treatment. If you were over there, and god forbid you ended up having a real medical emergency due to this treatment you would be at the mercy of a 3rd world hospital. and without trusted family or friends near by.


Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:33 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
bill_johnstl wrote:
WS1234 wrote:
i find it very hard to trust these treatments abroad without more people (real people) sharing success stories. I've heard maybe 2 about this guy but hard to confirm whats real and what's BS.


I agree. Greece and China, wouldn't be my pick for top notch medical knowledge or treatment. If you were over there, and god forbid you ended up having a real medical emergency due to this treatment you would be at the mercy of a 3rd world hospital. and without trusted family or friends near by.


I guess if you are desperate enough then you just want to try every possible treatment out there. Im starting to get desperate as well after 6 moths of trying different treatments


Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:21 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
Time for an update on my experience:

I've been back from Greece since 11/28 and went through 6 weeks of treatment with Dr. Georgiadis. I took all sorts of antibiotics such as roxithromycin, ceftoral, bactrim DS, spectracef, prixina, doxycycline, etc. for chlamydia and e-coli. I still find it hard to believe that I have chlamydia. It really doesn't make sense to me. I've had 2 partners my whole life and my current GF tested negative for chlamydia and has no symptoms, even though we've had unprotected sex more times than I can count. I had to get off the prixina because it made my Achilles tendons feel sore. Maybe I was walking too much (5 to 10 miles per day). I was on azithromycin the longest and probably took around 15g of it. All these drugs were combined with prostate pressure treatments twice daily (82 pressure sessions).

Overall I feel marginally better, but not 100%. The Dr. is expecting me to come back for another 4 weeks sometime in February, but I don't think I will be able to because of the cost and I'm out of vacation time. I could probably make it happen, but I am going to get a second opinion on everything from my urologist in Seattle. I want to order the semen test from Bedford labs after I've been off the antibiotics for a month. If no microbes are found I wont be going back to Greece.

I will say that I was impressed with the before and after TRUS images. Initially my prostate had lots of inflammation (red areas) and my seminal vesicles were all inflamed or infected (black dots). At the end of the treatment my prostate went from 25ml to 18ml and the inflammations were much less. The seminal vesicles were also much more clear. The main symptoms I still have are tenderness in the prostate area when sitting for too long on seats with thick cushions and I get bad blue balls if I don't ejaculate. My glans is also still slightly sensitive. In addition, I found out that I have a varicose vein in my left testicle which could be responsible for some pain I've had in the past. Maybe I will have this operated on in the states.

Some Greek patients have been going to the doctor for many years and still aren't cured. These patients do not go as much as international patients though. Another guy I met there from CA had been there fore 11 weeks and was feeling a lot better. Some greek patients said they were cured, but still go there once a year for "maintenance". If you have lots of time and money this treatment might work for you. I have mixed feelings about it, but it was worth a try. I was told i would only have to come for 4 to 6 weeks and that should be enough time. I didn't think I would have to keep coming back. The whole trip cost me about $7,500. If you are thinking about going to Greece for this, be prepared to come back after your initial 4-6 weeks. He may want you to stay for 10 weeks and have you come back 6 months later. In conclusion, the treatment is not some magic or quick solution. It will take a lot of your money and vacation time, with no guarantee that you will be cured.


Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:08 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
Couple of questions.

1. is it possible the inflammation has gone down just because of the number of drugs, many of those have anti inflammation effects.
2. can you described the pressure massages in some more details and how they different from "regular" prostate massages
3. In terms of the labs you had, did they actually find chlamydia? surely US labs would be able to find.
4. if you have an infection and you are supposed to go back after a period, wont the infection just get worse and you are back to step 1? bit confused by that.



LabMonkey333 wrote:
Time for an update on my experience:

I've been back from Greece since 11/28 and went through 6 weeks of treatment with Dr. Georgiadis. I took all sorts of antibiotics such as roxithromycin, ceftoral, bactrim DS, spectracef, prixina, doxycycline, etc. for chlamydia and e-coli. I still find it hard to believe that I have chlamydia. It really doesn't make sense to me. I've had 2 partners my whole life and my current GF tested negative for chlamydia and has no symptoms, even though we've had unprotected sex more times than I can count. I had to get off the prixina because it made my Achilles tendons feel sore. Maybe I was walking too much (5 to 10 miles per day). I was on azithromycin the longest and probably took around 15g of it. All these drugs were combined with prostate pressure treatments twice daily (82 pressure sessions).

Overall I feel marginally better, but not 100%. The Dr. is expecting me to come back for another 4 weeks sometime in February, but I don't think I will be able to because of the cost and I'm out of vacation time. I could probably make it happen, but I am going to get a second opinion on everything from my urologist in Seattle. I want to order the semen test from Bedford labs after I've been off the antibiotics for a month. If no microbes are found I wont be going back to Greece.

I will say that I was impressed with the before and after TRUS images. Initially my prostate had lots of inflammation (red areas) and my seminal vesicles were all inflamed or infected (black dots). At the end of the treatment my prostate went from 25ml to 18ml and the inflammations were much less. The seminal vesicles were also much more clear. The main symptoms I still have are tenderness in the prostate area when sitting for too long on seats with thick cushions and I get bad blue balls if I don't ejaculate. My glans is also still slightly sensitive. In addition, I found out that I have a varicose vein in my left testicle which could be responsible for some pain I've had in the past. Maybe I will have this operated on in the states.

Some Greek patients have been going to the doctor for many years and still aren't cured. These patients do not go as much as international patients though. Another guy I met there from CA had been there fore 11 weeks and was feeling a lot better. Some greek patients said they were cured, but still go there once a year for "maintenance". If you have lots of time and money this treatment might work for you. I have mixed feelings about it, but it was worth a try. I was told i would only have to come for 4 to 6 weeks and that should be enough time. I didn't think I would have to keep coming back. The whole trip cost me about $7,500. If you are thinking about going to Greece for this, be prepared to come back after your initial 4-6 weeks. He may want you to stay for 10 weeks and have you come back 6 months later. In conclusion, the treatment is not some magic or quick solution. It will take a lot of your money and vacation time, with no guarantee that you will be cured.


Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:10 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
I'm sure it is possible that the inflammation decreased because of the drugs and the pressures. Your guess is as good as mine. I'm just wondering why the seminal vesicles look so much better?

Each pressure session consists of 4 pressures at 30 seconds each. Basically the doctor is applying intense finger pressure on certain parts of the prostate that are inflamed/infected. Its a strong pressure that will leave your ass feeling bruised.

The lab stated that they found high molecular load of chlamydia DNA using PCR/DNA testing. I just find it strange since i previously had a 4 glass test performed, EPS test, several urine tests, and several swab tests, all of which were negative for white blood cells and microbes. Anyhow, I will submit a semen test to bedford labs after 4 weeks to see what shows up.

I'm supposed to limit my intake of sugar, alcohol, white bread, etc. until I go back to limit the growth of bacteria. Easier said than done... When you go back you're supposed to retest with the lab to see what percentage of the microbes are remaining. All my labs in the states were negative for chlamydia and my GF is negative for chlamydia. It just doesn't add up. One guy brought his GF to Greece to see the doctor and the lab found like 4 microbes. His GF was young and had no symptoms of any kind. The doctor says 99% of women will have microbes.


Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:39 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
Thank you for the update LabMonkey. It is strange that you were tested negative for microbes in the states but you were tested positive in Greece. This makes me wonder how accurate their tests were? I'm really hoping for your 100% recovery. Please continue to update us with your progress, this would help us find the right treatment too.


Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:18 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
While it is true that sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim, a/k/a Bactrim etc., are anti-inflammatory, it is also true that the fluoroquinolones are pro-inflammatory. Where the idea that abx are anti-inflammatory really got its impetus was from the observation that prostatitis patients often feel better on abx but relapse when abx are withdrawn. This was certainly true in my case, even with fluoroquinolones. The real explanation for this is that biofilm bacteria are suppressed while one is on abx but recover and repopulate when abx are withdrawn.

If abx were truly anti-inflammatory they would find use for that purpose since some patients are unable to tolerate the traditional anti-inflammatories.


Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:28 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
Any update with the progress of your treatment Labmonkey?


Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:44 am
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Post Re: The saga continues
JoeW wrote:
While it is true that sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim, a/k/a Bactrim etc., are anti-inflammatory, it is also true that the fluoroquinolones are pro-inflammatory. Where the idea that abx are anti-inflammatory really got its impetus was from the observation that prostatitis patients often feel better on abx but relapse when abx are withdrawn. This was certainly true in my case, even with fluoroquinolones. The real explanation for this is that biofilm bacteria are suppressed while one is on abx but recover and repopulate when abx are withdrawn.

If abx were truly anti-inflammatory they would find use for that purpose since some patients are unable to tolerate the traditional anti-inflammatories.



Joe while I agree that biofilms could be an issue, the research I have done has indicated the exact opposite of what you are claiming - quinolones are definitely antiinflammatory. Maybe I'll make a separate post on the subject in the next day or two. There are papers out there discussing the pathways for this and abx use for antiinflammatory purposes. In fact I was looking at a paper once where augmentin was a more effective antiinflammatory than methylprednisolone! I'll see if I can find it again.


Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:28 am
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I personally find the bolded part astounding and appalling - apparently no one bothered to look past the misleading abstract of that particular study and took it for gospel. From http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... facts.org/

Quote:
Yasumoto et al[45] [46] tested the effect of sparfloxacin on 17 men considered to have non-bacterial prostatitis. In ten of these patients, elevated cytokines were reduced to undetectable levels after treatment. The cytokine status of the remaining seven was not reported. Treatment was at least somewhat effective in reducing symptoms in 76% of the men. Calcifications were noted in 29%. The investigators do not state to what extent this subgroup benefited from treatment.

The men were determined to have non-bacterial prostatitis by the absence of "Gram-negative bacteria number of 10^3/ml or more in a culture of the semen and VB3 urine " They ignored all gram positive bacteria, including known prostatitis pathogen Enterococcus faecalis, and did not attempt to detect some known Gram-negative pathogens: "there is a possibility that gram negative bacteria such as Chlamydia trachomatis and Ureaplasma urealyticum are involved in such cases ... an adequate search for these microorganisms was not carried out". This study failed to exclude bacterial prostatitis! It does not qualify as evidence of an "anti-inflammatory" effect. Nevertheless, it has been cited 22 times. [emphasis added]

Dalhoff reviewed the published data on fluoroquinolones["FQs"].[47] He included the Yasumoto study uncritically, and proceeded to opine that FQs generally "attenuate cytokine responses." He did find decreases in IL-1 and TNF. The reduction of TNF reduced sepsis-induced mortality in animal models.

However, there were important pro-inflammatory effects: "The marked activity of sparfloxacin and moxifloxacin against Listeria is due to ... a quinolone mediated increase in IFN-γ levels." Also, "FQs were found to upregulate hematopoiesis," the result being: "... ciprofloxacin and moxifloxacin significantly enhanced GM-CSF production in the lungs of immunocompromised animals (3.5- to 4-fold) ... GM-CSF has a pivotal role in establishing and maintaining resistance to local infections ... several clinical studies indicate that ciprofloxacin may shorten the duration of chemotherapy-induced neutropenia."

More recently Shiratori et al[48] found: "... quinolones significantly enhanced OPN [Osteopontin] secretion". Osteopontin is an upregulator of chemotaxis. "Within the immune system, OPN is a cytokine secreted by activated T cells, NK cells, dendritic cells, and macrophages ... the expression of OPN correlated with an effective immune and inflammatory response."[49]

A recent study of fluoroquinolones in patients with complicated UTIs showed they were pro-inflammatory: "... ciprofloxacin and levofloxacin induce more reactive oxygen species."[50]

In sum, fluoroquinolones exhibit numerous pro-inflammatory effects and a few anti-inflammatory effects. We cannot characterize them as "anti-inflammatory".


Last edited by Administrator on Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

prostate2010



Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:13 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
I had my doctor perform a prostate massage followed by a culture of my semen. The results will come back in a week. I will post back on here when I have the results.


Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:59 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
Results came back showing negative for chlamydia trachomatis in my semen. It looks like Dr. Georgiadis in Greece potentially gave me a false positive for the chlamydia diagnosis. Be careful with these private practice urologists specializing in prostatitis treatment. They know we're desperate and there is a lot of money to be made. I'm done looking for some phantom bacteria, as I don't think that's the cause at all. Learn from my mistake and save yourself $8k.

The semen culture noted mixed flora 2+. The doctor explained that this is normal bacterial flora on everyone's skin, and sometimes traces of this make its way into the fluid. Doctor also stated that a true bacterial pathogen will grow one type of bacteria in much higher numbers.

I'm going to go back to the internal PT and let time do its job.


Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:44 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
LabMonkey333 wrote:
Results came back showing negative for chlamydia trachomatis in my semen. It looks like Dr. Georgiadis in Greece potentially gave me a false positive for the chlamydia diagnosis. Be careful with these private practice urologists specializing in prostatitis treatment. They know we're desperate and there is a lot of money to be made. I'm done looking for some phantom bacteria, as I don't think that's the cause at all. Learn from my mistake and save yourself $8k.

The semen culture noted mixed flora 2+. The doctor explained that this is normal bacterial flora on everyone's skin, and sometimes traces of this make its way into the fluid. Doctor also stated that a true bacterial pathogen will grow one type of bacteria in much higher numbers.

I'm going to go back to the internal PT and let time do its job.


Thank you Labmonkey for the update. Hoping for your full recovery as I'm hoping for mine too. I suggests looking at Traditional Chinese Medicine as well. Try to look for a reputable Chinese doctor in your area. This is my next plan too.


Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:31 pm
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I have to been seeing Georgiadis for treatment for several weeks. The thing with his treatment (as with many other treatments), it just don't work for everyone. And people who sees him have had different stages of prostatitis, some have had prostatitis for some weeks and some for 20-30 years. Thats maybe the treatment works better for some, worse or not at all for some. Some patients sees him for several years before they get cured. Many gets relapse after som years. Georgiadis told me that its not uncommon that his patients sometimes comes back after being cured.

One thing people should ask themselves, is why his treatment should work much better than all the research on the are with prostate massage and antibiotics. (Even thought he perform the prostate massage differently with high finger pressure). Note that both Curtis Nickel and Daniel Shoskes have done research on the area. Georgiadis never have done any research on the area or kept track on his patients progress with the Upoint. http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... ointmd.com His evidence on the effectiveness of his treatment should be strictly anecdotal.

http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... d/12496826
http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... d/10527258
http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... d/16566972

From what i have understood is that Mycolab is total independent from Georgiadis. From what i could see at my visit, it was a high class lab. There where some things you could ask yourselves about the preparation before the test. From where i come you have take a complete shower the same day as the test and clean yourselves with a special washing cream. Upon testing at the lab you take of your clothes, gests your lover parts swabbed and you get a these green paper hospital clothes before the labtest. Everything to minimize contaminations. This was not the preparations at Stavroulas Mycolab.

The lab reports states how much bacteria that was found, if the colonies is very low and you have no symptoms. Maybe you shouldn't bother. If there are a lot of colonies, it should of course be treated. Also you should questions if the Chlamydia bacteria found is real bacteria and not Chlamydia antibodies. Why? The lab report never states any sensitive antibiotics or how many colonies found of Chlamydia. One great thing about the lab report is that it states how many white blood cells your semen cotains. During the treatment, you can follow how the white blood cells goes down in the coming lab reports. http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... mycolab.gr

If you have any questions about my experience with Georgiadis, please don't hesitate to ask.


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prostate2010



Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:48 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
@LabMonkey333

Did you do any prostate injections at Georgiadis?
Did you speak to anyone who had done prostate injections from Georgiadis?
What was their/your results and impressions from the injections?
If you didn't do them, why?


Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:01 pm
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Post Re: The saga continues
He didn't offer injections. He said he would perform them if necessary after I return a 2nd time.
He didn't perform injections on any of the patients I met there.

Bottom line is he falsely diagnosed me with chlamydia. He's lost all credibility in my book.


Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:30 am
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Post Re: The saga continues
Well said labmonkey. These criminals need to be named and shamed


Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:59 am
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Post Re: The saga continues
Hello everyone. Let me start by saying that I was also a chronic prostatitis patient and at the same time I am family-related with Dr. Georgiadis – I know him, the disease and his method for more than 20 years and I honestly doubt if there are many others in the world who have remotely close empirical experience to CP as he does (and yes, that includes the more famous research-oriented doctors in the US or the East). Naturally, I know many patients who are completely cured (monitored by him for about 1-2 years either by direct visit or through communication), some that are somewhat cured (but still with few remaining symptoms) and others who left disappointed - I will elaborate more below. I personally am completely symptom-free since September 2016 but I also went through the process before it became too chronic – that doesn’t necessarily mean I am free of microbes yet, but I will check next time I go to Athens.

I have been hesitating to write here because 1) I do not have time to reply to questions / concerns / complaints (and PLEASE respect that) – you can e-mail the doctor directly, 2) I check the blog sporadically (i.e. once every some weeks), 3) I have met some of you in person as we both happened to be in Athens at the same time, and I do not want to bias you against writing honest opinions (especially the negative ones) – if anything, this helps me provide him with suggestions so that he can give a better service.

I will provide some information that I have gathered through those 20 years of discussing with him. I remind you, these are conclusions he has reached solely through his own (yet vast) experience. It may not be published in an academic setting yet, but I am working on it – be patient. He and I are both aware that published literature disagrees with some of those conclusions (as I am certain many of the people who read this) but we have also found a lot of holes in the methodology used in those papers thus rendering them (and subsequent research based on them) unreliable. So, here goes:

  • The original cause of the problem is always the microbes – this is not a mantra he decided to swear by one random day, but rather a conclusion he has reached through the years. Some symptoms might be caused by muscles or exist in areas around the prostate, but even those are symptoms that happen AFTER a patient has started developing problems in the prostate. To state it differently, in those 20+ years he has been working solely on CP, he has perhaps encountered only 5% of the cases where he could never find a microbe during the whole period of treatment but those cases still exhibited some elevated leukocyte count.
  • Often, the microbe was not found by multitude of doctors and microbiologists (good and mediocre) and in a few cases not even Mycolab of Athens could find it, until maybe 2-3 weeks into the treatment (and there is a very good reason for that!). Dr. Georgiadis uses the leucocyte count as an indication when no microbes are found.

Note to the comments above: If you are wondering if the exams and the results are real, yes, they are very very real. In fact, I see it as a badge of honour for Mycolab when it finds microbes that even the best and most expensive American (or UK-based in my case) urologists / microbiologists fail to find. A doctor with the number of clients that Dr. Georgiadis has does not need to resort to the things you so ignorantly imply above. When no microbes are found he simply tells you that the lab found no microbes, but they could still be there and goes through the treatment normally – the problem in these cases is that he cannot optimise the antibiotics. @LabMonkey333 If you were examined with chlamydia or whatever before the treatment, despite you being in denial, I am sorry but you had it – be happy to at least know what you have (or had in case you managed to clean it in time). As for the injections, it’s not up to the patients to know when it is best to do them… especially when the elasticity of the prostate has not been restored. Injections should only be done at the very end when the prostate has softened as much as possible and only IF necessary (i.e. to reach areas that seem to have microbes that are otherwise unreachable). I do not understand why patients who are sometimes reluctant to even take quinolones seem so willing to take hundredfold dosages of antibiotics in the form of an injection inside the prostate.

Why do the other microbiologists not find the microbes? A few reasons:

  • Maybe they do not care about your results or you as much as you think they do. Despite the high cost and flashiness that some labs have in the US and UK (and trust me in London, they are very flashy with making you sterilized etc.), in the actual analysing process they cut corners and they generally treat patients like numbers. In one of London’s best labs they found me zero microbes, and in Greece they found me Enterococcus and E. Coli and this has been the case for many other patients. Mycolab is VERY rigorous in that sense and this is something their microbiologist should be congratulated for. You know, having doctors that actually try to cure you is quite necessary, especially for CP.
  • (Most important) The PRESSURE before the sample – this is what makes all the difference. When Dr. Georgiadis performs a prostatic pressure he aims for areas where microbes likely exist (i.e. the prostatic glandular ducts). He tries to unblock those areas so that the microbes get released in the sample. Sometimes, the microbes might not be released until deep into the treatment (i.e. 2-3 weeks) as more of the areas soften up. The way he works is by softening the most recently infected areas of the prostate and then slowly moves towards the more chronically infected ones (which are usually more calcified, harder to restore and closer to the initial point of entry, the urethra). This is the reason your partner might not have the same microbes as you – simply you may not be releasing the microbe (i.e. you are not infectious) or you may be releasing it in very small quantities!!! This is also the reason some microbes might come up mid-way or after the treatment that did not appear in the first microbiological exams. The doctor explains this again, and again, and again. Why this is so hard to understand, I do not know. He is working on finding better ways to explain what exactly is happening to the patient (and their body) during the treatment – possibly using videos and informative booklets, but those are still in progress.
  • As far as I understand in LabMonkey333’s case they found chlamydia at Mycolab in Greece before the treatment, but post-treatment the labs in the US found no chlamydia and you imply it was a false positive? Have you not even considered the prospect that you may have cleaned it up? Also, let me ask you (and anyone who has visited him) this: you have spent quite some weeks in the clinic – you MUST have met both new patients (who are confused and at the beginning), as well as older patients who see the doctor like a god because they are now healthy after years of suffering (and come for maintenance or are towards the end) after trying out many many methods and treatments with no result - the cases that end up to him are cases that are often one step before committing suicide or performing surgery. Why are you so quick to ignore the existence of those patients and assume tricky things are going on because… you didn’t like the microbiological results? Or is it because the clinic is not based in the US (hence in your mind it is less credible)?

    Do you know many other doctors with similar results, who publicly claim what Dr. Georgiadis claims and have such a number of clients? And at the end of the day, he has been doing this for 20 years (it’s just that the internet discovered him only the past few) – do you honestly believe he would be so successful had he not had results through those years? Of course he has had disappointed cases who either saw slow progress or no difference after a few weeks or simply stopped due to financial reasons and relapsed later, but these are a minority. The big drawback of his method is that it takes a lot of time and hence the financial cost can be quite high, but honestly, if there was anything faster and less unpleasant that is similarly effective don’t you think he would have tried it already? You prefer to trust labs and doctors who have no record of curing a single chronic prostatitis case against that of a doctor who has hundreds(!) just because you cannot believe that you had chlamydia? Ponder your experience up to now and draw your conclusions using intelligence and logic, not prejudice.

Here one might reference the studies that claim that someone can have microbes without symptoms or symptoms without microbes. The problem in the first case is that all these studies look for few specific heavy symptoms, but they always ignore the more subtle ones; not to mention the general incompetence in Urology at finding microbes in the prostate. Indeed, different people with the same microbe might exhibit very different symptoms (of variable degree) and here is where lifestyle plays a role – some lifestyles (and possibly genetics?) seem to aid in the multiplication of microbes and the creation of inflammations, hence heavier symptoms appear to some people or develop more rapidly (as opposed to late 40s where most men start noticing things). This is the reason Dr. Georgiadis also asks the patients to follow a specific diet as lifestyle can aid (or hinder) the treatment.

With regards to the Georgiadis method:
  • The finger pressure is not random nor “magic” – he starts from specific areas (usually the most recently infected based on touch and the image of the TRUS) and works towards the more chronically-infected, calcified areas. To the patient it may feel like the doctor is just squeezing the prostate very hard, but obviously he wouldn’t have the results and the crazy number of patients he has daily if he just did something that EVERYONE else has tried with obvious mediocre results. This is also the difference between him and all those “antibiotics with prostate massage” doctors and studies. Restoring the prostate properly requires rigorous specified-point pressures, high frequency (i.e. daily or bidaily), a long time (which can sometimes be years, but the improvement happens bit by bit), correct antibiotics (which is why a good microbiologist is very VERY necessary) and obviously experience. You have to know where you hit and what the end result will be otherwise you are going blind and this is where most doctors fail.
  • Unfortunately, every case is different and there is no rule of thumb of how long it will take until one reaches the point of “no microbes, almost-zero leukocytes, prostate is natural size and no inflammations”. It may take months but in some cases it may take years - there are just too many factors (chronicity, microbe resistance, lifestyle etc.) to say for certain. Sometimes curing CP does not necessarily make all the symptoms go away as they exist on different areas of the urogenital system. That being said, if you treat the peripheral symptoms without treating the causing factor you are just taking a temporary painkiller, while the inflamed prostate keeps expanding until the problems can no longer be masked.

To conclude, there are of course areas that the doctor could do better at; primarily with PR, better website, an independent result reporting system, better explanation to the patients, more staff, more flashy facilities, more academic work, maybe more patience with questions etc., but he deeply believes in what he does, he has decades of experience & results and he honestly tries to cure as many patients as he can. @LabMonkey333 If he told you to come back for exams, I strongly advise you show some trust and go back to get examined, and if necessary continue your therapy. If you had very few symptoms before the treatment, you probably haven’t seen much subjective difference, but your post-treatment TRUS should have shown you your objective improvement (i.e. fewer inflamed areas in the prostate, better elasticity, smaller size) and no, this is obviously not only because of the antibiotics (as some people implied above). On their own, antibiotics and anti-inflammatories have minimal effect after a while as I am certain many of you have now experienced.

If anything, I need to find a way for him to either publish (but the journal and the setting must be first-class and with a good university probably from the US) or train other doctors (for the empirical part of the process and how to deal with complications in the prostate of CP case) before he retires and stops practicing. His knowledge on the correct diagnosis and treatment of chronic prostatitis for men, chronic cystitis for women and their complications can help millions of people in the future, not to mention lead to the development of new technological tools specialised for this task.

Having said all that, any constructive suggestions towards that goal would be helpful. I understand many of you are sceptical and maybe I would be if our positions were switched, but don’t judge so easily one of the very few doctors who genuinely try to solve this problem and actually have promising results.
I may reply after weeks in some cases, but please respect that, like you, I have a job and many other responsibilities. Thank you in advance.


PS:
A bit more about my case (if you are interested):
I live and work in England so in the past I have been going sporadically to Athens for bidaily treatments (i.e. 7-10 days) + antibiotics just to manage the symptoms, until September 2016 when I arranged to stay for a month and a half to do it properly.
  • I have always worn protection and never had unusual sexual adventures, and I am VERY experienced in noticing even the small symptoms of CP as I know the disease inside out. Despite all that, even I was too late to ask him to examine me, so by the time that happened I was already at least ~2 years infected.
  • My diet contained a lot of sugars.
  • I am less than 25 years old.
  • I do not remember exactly, but I think my prostate was about 13 ml when I first got tested.
  • In Greece, from the first exam (i.e. prostatic pressure and then EPS and sperm sample to Mycolab), we found E. Coli (which was rather weak) and Enterococcus (which was unfortunately more resistant) and my sperm was yellowish.
  • My symptoms were: noticeably weaker erections (both in strength and stamina), some problems in urination (that I had not noticed interestingly), lack of morning erections.
  • The sporadic 7-10 day treatments only gave me temporary relief and I would relapse after some weeks.
  • My medication consisted of a variety of the usual quinolones, probiotics, normal antibiotics and anti-inflammatories.
  • Since finishing the longer treatment (i.e. one and a half months) in September 2016, I have no symptoms, which has made me very happy. :)


Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:21 pm
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:01 pm
Posts: 3
Post Re: The saga continues
bill_johnstl wrote:
WS1234 wrote:
i find it very hard to trust these treatments abroad without more people (real people) sharing success stories. I've heard maybe 2 about this guy but hard to confirm whats real and what's BS.


I agree. Greece and China, wouldn't be my pick for top notch medical knowledge or treatment. If you were over there, and god forbid you ended up having a real medical emergency due to this treatment you would be at the mercy of a 3rd world hospital. and without trusted family or friends near by.


A typical American who thinks rest of the world is the same. China and Greece are two complete different countries and Dr. Giorgiadis is not a scam, he is legitimate, I head lots of stories about Chinese clinics, I have never been there so I can't comment.

But I started the treatment with Dr. Giorgiadis and it is legitimate and it is working, It has been two days and I already feel much better. There is a queue of people in front of his office and when you wait there you get to talk to people from all around the world who are being cured.


Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:52 am
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