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 I don't think Uro believes me. 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:55 am
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
Same here, Chavalote! There are only certain treatments, medicines, and solutions that actually work without presenting more problems than they're already claiming to solve. It goes for the environmental movement too. Why develop tons of technology to get rid of carbon dioxide and other compounds in the air that have existed in this planet for eons, only to alter (manipulate really) the atmosphere and environment in whole. I have an environmental science (biology emphasis) bachelor's degree, and from the studying I did in college and the studying I've done on my own, I have come to the individual consensus that the western methods and approaches to trying to make life better for people is for the most part a travesty and not working in balance/conjunction with nature and even what and how humans would benefit much better from.

It appears that it's holding onto its last vestiges of hope in the form of idealization of such things as longer lifespans, more comforts and conveniences, less so-called crime and immorality, etc., etc. than other "less developed" nations and places. But the fact is that much of it is based in the comparison and contrast with countries that have not been able to develop as much economically and technologically, and/or have chosen not to do so, because of a myriad of setbacks and problems that continue to keep them from improving their own ways of life, or because they believe and know that their current way of life is good for them and cannot be compared to the western world's "advances" and "promises".

Ancient eastern philosophy, medicine, agriculture and thinking has produced a vast assortment of effective means and methods by which illness and environmental hazards caused by humans and other sources are prevented and their respect for life is maintained. Their development of solutions without creating more problems is also empowered. But not everywhere there. It's simply that in contrast to the westernized world, they have retained many old and ancient ways and treatments, yet are also exploring new ideas and developments in technology and problem-solving. I think that primarily there is a major difference in attitude and perspective of the individual, especially in how the individual is connected to the rest of society.

Western thinking in this aspect is largely degrading, wasteful, haphazard, and inconsiderate, not to mention calculating and indifferent. It has been my experience through my life, and as far as having symptoms that chronically produce and lead to pain, discomfort, and difficulty in my life, I could well do without the western culture's imposition and destruction of my need to be respected and shown care/consideration. For a long time I tried to set that aside and be open to the reality of the world, that everyone deals with problems and needs to be given a chance to learn and change and grow, etc.

However, I think that there is something missing from the picture when it comes to that notion. Similar to an illness, society sometimes becomes sick with its own mixture of differing views, ideals, and efforts to change things, and has in my time thus far resulted in a severe decrease in people caring and intelligently approaching potential solutions to problems. Or when people care, the whole thing is muddled and too difficult, it seems, for appropriate solutions to be made.


Wed May 11, 2016 7:24 pm
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
You guys seem to be pointing out just the bad things we have done along the way. I think scientific thinking is like a tool, if you use it correctly, it can get some good work done. If not, you can create more problems. There are many broad ranging problems created by 'science' or should I say, misguided people, that you have gone into, but there are many good things it has done too. Antibiotics do save many people, I still have my foot because of antibiotics and my ex girlfriend, her leg. They just need to be used in the correct situations. I am sorry you guys have been messed up by antibiotics, urologists are particularly bad at this. I think there is now increasing awareness that antibiotics are being over prescribed, especially in this country anyway. I think to just blanket ban science and go back to living in the forest isn't very sensible, average living expectancy was about 30 years old in prehistoric times, because many people died of infections and other diseases. Yes there have been other problems created, but that is hopefully how we will learn in the future and progress.


Fri May 13, 2016 3:58 am
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:55 am
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
I don't recommend blanket banning science, Chris. That definitely would be a bad decision. But I think Chavalote has a point about science and its many different participants/professionals lacking some respect for the natural world in some ways and areas of study. However, it's also true that observation that is meant to ascertain facts from unknown and mysterious places/sources/organisms is not always given to being respectful and considerate. I'm simply seeing how much I'm at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding the problem/illness for myself, and not having the "authority of the doctor" forced upon me as the only guide by which I must adhere for my health. To be able to research and learn myself and request help from doctors and professionals is necessary in regards to prostatitis / CPPS symptoms, and it's not been as easy or good as it could be. Thankfully, this forum has people who understand from their personal experiences and are willing to share information and accounts for a collaborative sort of benefit. Sorry for being so negative about science and the modern, western world, but there are problems that need to be addressed, which aren't for the most part.


Fri May 13, 2016 11:51 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:11 pm
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
The point is that this is not just "the bad things", the problem is in the basis. If something is wrong the right thing is re-think it from the basis and change it all if necessary. If we look at all the picture widely we can see easily that the western way of life (no matter the "beautiful" words the propagandists use. For example: "development", "progress"...), culture and science harm much more than they help. It's a war, destruction, competition, exclusion and exploitation based way of life, and not one based on health, cooperation, respect, and care.

No, the problems we are pointing here are not the "bad things", they are the essence, the core of this culture. The "good things" (that too many few people benefit from) are there at the cost of the destruction of the planet and the damage to a lot of human and non-human beings. Western science is not about respect and understanding, it's about egoism and domination will. That's why they make experiments with animals to benefit a few rich persons. If that's only the "bad things" I would like to ask to an indian who gets his forest destroyed or an animal who gets killed in a laboratory if they think so. I'm pretty sure that they won't agree.

It's the same with our health problems and our experiences with the urologists. Those are not isolated cases, they are the essence of this medicine system, which see people as numbers and not persons, which actually doesn't care about health, only about money and power of the few who benefit from it.

One more thing about western science. In my antibiogram appear a lot of antibiotics supossed to be effective against the bacteria that is infecting my prostate but then they don't work. Why? Because they are isolating the phenomenoms from their nature, their real environment. The laboratory man said to me the last day I went "that's "in vitro", what happens in your body may be different". I see another big basis mistake here. You can't study the nature isolating things from it. You will arrive to wrong conclusions. If the western science were as powerful and "rational" as the propagandists claim I would have got cured by the first antibiotic I took from the list of the antibiogram, but that didn't happen. If that is not a kind of superstition tell me what it is. I can hear people already saying "that's the bad things", but I insist, what I'm criticizing is a basis mistake, not random bad things. The solution to our problems won't get solved by more western science, we need another kind of science or knowledge, one based on respect and true understanding of the natural world. Rather than ask ourselves how to kill a bacteria we need to ask first why those bacterias get there? Why they turn pathogens? Why cultures living in nature never developed those pathogens and infectious diseases? But to think that we need to get rid of the "scientific arrogance" and anthropocentrism, question the current whole culture.

No one indian in America contracted smallpox or syphilis until the western people arrived there. I see a very important point there.

The "bad things" statement remembers me a person justifying an abuser. For example, a child saying that his abuser mother "only hits him when she gets angry, but other times she is nice". The problem is that the mother is an abuser, the problem is in the basis. The child needs to run from her because she will never change. Justifying her and believing that she will change with time is delusional. Same happens with the western science and medicine. Those are abusive and exploitative from the basis and we need to re-think them.


Fri May 13, 2016 12:22 pm
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
Exactly, Chavalote. It's especially important to note that isolating things from nature to study them is fraught with issues and will lead to mistakes, unless the gaps are capable of being filled in with the right knowledge and perspective (which is nearly or actually impossible in most cases I think). The fact is that most of western medicine and health knowledge, as well as other industries, and theory has a basis that allows for the proliferation of pathogens and more problems rather than the proper and safe prevention of and defense against them. The same goes for the environment because it's interconnected with what materials, resources, and specimens are extracted from that environment. I think it goes back to the idea that the earth and the environment and life have some capacity to regenerate and therefore for many years it was seen (mistakenly and foolishly) that extracting things from the earth and moving things around from one continent/country to other(s) is/was not a problem. The latter set up by a malformed and uninformed justification that adaptation is a fundamental and principle function found in nature. I did a study in college in Ecology Theory and Methods class where I attempted to observe the effects of hiking and biking on trails to the trailside plants (plants that are hanging over or within close proximity to the trail's edge). Although I observed with my own eyes that various plants near the trail's edge had more holes, tears, rips, and generally more damage and even appeared to be shorter and lower in growth compared to non-trailside plants, it was difficult to attribute to any one, particular human activity. Even if I were to imagine bikes passing through the plants and ripping them up and whatever else, I still don't think that could be construed as the primary culprit of trailside plant damage because how often would that occur since the dirt and such is softer, rougher terrain and less ridable than directly within the trail's edges. And walking/running couldn't possibly cause holes and stunted growth unless it were being done most or all of the time I would think. The point I'm making is that CP/CPPS and other diseases/conditions are similar with respect to the need for appropriate techniques and approaches/thinking to understand them well and be able to prevent/cure patients of them.


Fri May 13, 2016 12:53 pm
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:39 pm
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
I very much enjoyed reading all that, thank you guys.


Fri May 13, 2016 9:58 pm
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 2:59 pm
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
I think your possibly over using the term western science, science is all around the world, in china, japan, and so on. I also think your making a lot of sweeping generalisations, like if antibiotics didnt work for me then the whole system is wrong. I think that is a bias point of view, there are many problems in it however your right in that. And also when you say western science is all about ego and domination, this is just part of the picture, sure there are some ego driven scientists that want to make money, but the reason most people get into science is to help people. I dont agree with animal testing I would never do that, there are plenty of scientists that have similar views. So maybe this scientific thinking is not the problem it is people lacking clear sense of morality and perspective. Of course a big problem is damage of the environment by human use of technology, but how can we use science to deal with this problem by other technologies such as recycling and solar cells.


Sat May 14, 2016 9:16 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:11 pm
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
I think I explained well my points and you haven't understand them (for example, you keep saying that I'm making "generalizations" when I said clearly that I'm critizicing the basis of the modern western science [animal experiments, for example, are part of that basis and not isolated "bad practices". Anthropocentrism, anyone?), and also I'm not talking about my case when I talked about antibiotics don't working [it would be important here underline that mine is not an isolated case, antibiotics don't working in the body is something that occurs a lot, I think in this forum a lot of us have experienced that, not only me], it obviously was an example to explain how things isolated from their natural environment don't work in the same way, and isolating things from their natural environment to study them in a laboratory is also part of the basis I'm critizicing).

I see no point in continuing this talk. I can't explain my points better. I think that people who can understand them will understand without twisting.


Sat May 14, 2016 11:48 am
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
I apologise if I have mis interpreted you, that wasn't my intention. However, many people with different diseases have positive experiences with antibiotics, like myself, as I said, so there clearly is a bigger picture. I don't think animal experiments are the basis of modern science, that is one small part of a much bigger framework. Many scientists find animal models disagreeable and don't work on them. What is true for a mouse often isn't for a human. I think scientists are quite aware that it is good to study things in their natural environment, that's what ecologists do when they go stay in the jungle. However there is a limit to what you can do without a lab to work in. I don't think there is inherently wrong or bad with labs or modern science, it is just how they are applied. It is a shame you haven't had any luck with your condition, mine is similar, it is a complex case. Thanks for the discussion.


Sun May 15, 2016 11:23 am
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Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:10 pm
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
Just an update, this will be my last until next PSA in August. Anyway I have been taking the supps for a bit more than a month an a half I guess and have been off of all antibiotics for at least that long. The results are no more leakage, more time between bathroom trips (went from 12 pm to 5 pm without urinating on Sat). Much stronger flow, stronger ejaculations( remember when you were 13 or 14) Side affects, libido is off the charts, erections are voluntary frequent and strong. I have actually cut the dosage from 3 time a day to 1 time a day, because the like I said the libido is off the charts to the point it is getting difficult to satisfy.


Mon May 16, 2016 10:44 am
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:39 pm
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
Good to hear! I've also got a little better no more hesitancy before urination, and start stopping urine flow has finally ceased, still have bad urinary frequency though, and the pain doesn't seem to be going anywhere in a hurry, but it's nice to finally see an improvement. usually when this sort a thing happens it lasts a day or two then goes right back, but luckily its seemed to stick for the last 2 weeks. hopefully this continues, the day I'm pain free will be the best day of my life.


Mon May 16, 2016 11:50 am
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:39 am
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Post Re: I don't think Uro believes me.
uncleg wrote:
Just an update, this will be my last until next PSA in August. Anyway I have been taking the supps for a bit more than a month an a half I guess and have been off of all antibiotics for at least that long. The results are no more leakage, more time between bathroom trips (went from 12 pm to 5 pm without urinating on Sat). Much stronger flow, stronger ejaculations( remember when you were 13 or 14) Side affects, libido is off the charts, erections are voluntary frequent and strong. I have actually cut the dosage from 3 time a day to 1 time a day, because the like I said the libido is off the charts to the point it is getting difficult to satisfy.


Congratulations for your success and thanks for sharing the good news with us.


Mon May 16, 2016 4:06 pm
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