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 Quercetin abruptly stopped working! Help!: Attention:Madcap 
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 59
Post Quercetin abruptly stopped working! Help!: Attention:Madcap
Hi:

I've been using Quercetin since Fall 2018. It worked beautifully on all my urinary symptoms. Mainly urinary difficulty, poor stream, and urinary urgency. Later on, it even seemed to resolve the nocturia. It began working rapidly within a few days of my starting.

I was taking only half the recommended daily dose of 1,000 mg. At first I added Bromelain as per the study. Then later I found it worked just as well without the Bromelain. So was on only 500mg Quercetin daily, taken with food. I did discontinue the Quercetin for a few days about year and a half ago. Urinary stream got weaker-though manageable- after a few days of non-use. So I went back on it. Symptoms again resolved within a few days. So it's likely the original improvement was due-at least in large part- to the Quercetin.

A week ago, while still on my 500mg/day regimen, the symptoms returned. I was very devastated!! I had thought my ordeal with this had finally come to a close. And now its back!
==================

I went through some of my notes on this and found the following in a post by Madcap:

Quote:
"I’ve taken it in combination with Bromelain off and on for several years. However I do not stay on it continuously. Quercetin acts as an anti inflammatory but if used for too long a period of time can have the opposite effect. My suggestion is take a break from it after 4-6 weeks. Maybe take a 2 week break and start back. The other option is stay on it as long as you feel it’s having a positive effect and take a break if you notice a change."

-Madcap-- Prostatitis Forum: Dec 4 , 2018

I had actually taken notice of this suggestion of yours about taking breaks a year ago, but I had figured since it was working so well on only half the recommended dose, I might forego taking those Quercetin breaks.

To Madcap:

I'm wondering if this sudden relapse a week ago may be due to my not taking the breaks suggested above? Last time I had urinary difficulties like this, the onset was more insidious..Alternatively, it might be due to a worsening of the underlying condition(s). But it's odd how abruptly symptoms returned..And so similar to the original ones.

My big fear now is that the Quercetin has permanently pooped out on me
===========

Questions:

1) If I take the "quercetin break" NOW --being symptomatic and all--will its effectiveness likely return to its previous state when I resume?.

2) How long should this break be for?

Not sure if that 2-week suggestion is for the "4-6 weeks on 2 weeks off" pattern. Or is it same amount of time after long term uninterrupted use?

I had actually been considering to switch to a more bio-available form of Quercetin called :

"EMIQ® (Enzymatically Modified Isoquercitrin)

when those symptoms returned

Supposedly is 40 times better absorbed. Or alternatively, to up the Quercetin dose to the recommended 1,000 mg daily, if I'm even able to tolerate that- gastro-intestinally

But now that I see this post of yours from 2018, I'm thinking maybe I should sweat this out. Take that break, return to the form that worked so well, and revisit the EMIQ-modified Quercetin- issue once this "quercetin break" issue is settled?

I'm a bit apprehensive about stopping something that had been working well even briefly. Not sure if its doing much now though..

In any case, I'd deeply appreciate your input both on whether a break would likely restore the prior effectiveness and how long should this break be for.

Thank you kindly:
~elias~


Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:06 pm
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:30 am
Posts: 836
Post Re: Quercetin abruptly stopped working! Help!: Attention:Mad
elias wrote:
Hi:

I've been using Quercetin since Fall 2018. It worked beautifully on all my urinary symptoms. Mainly urinary difficulty, poor stream, and urinary urgency. Later on, it even seemed to resolve the nocturia. It began working rapidly within a few days of my starting.

I was taking only half the recommended daily dose of 1,000 mg. At first I added Bromelain as per the study. Then later I found it worked just as well without the Bromelain. So was on only 500mg Quercetin daily, taken with food. I did discontinue the Quercetin for a few days about year and a half ago. Urinary stream got weaker-though manageable- after a few days of non-use. So I went back on it. Symptoms again resolved within a few days. So it's likely the original improvement was due-at least in large part- to the Quercetin.

A week ago, while still on my 500mg/day regimen, the symptoms returned. I was very devastated!! I had thought my ordeal with this had finally come to a close. And now its back!
==================

I went through some of my notes on this and found the following in a post by Madcap:

Quote:
"I’ve taken it in combination with Bromelain off and on for several years. However I do not stay on it continuously. Quercetin acts as an anti inflammatory but if used for too long a period of time can have the opposite effect. My suggestion is take a break from it after 4-6 weeks. Maybe take a 2 week break and start back. The other option is stay on it as long as you feel it’s having a positive effect and take a break if you notice a change."

-Madcap-- Prostatitis Forum: Dec 4 , 2018

I had actually taken notice of this suggestion of yours about taking breaks a year ago, but I had figured since it was working so well on only half the recommended dose, I might forego taking those Quercetin breaks.

To Madcap:

I'm wondering if this sudden relapse a week ago may be due to my not taking the breaks suggested above? Last time I had urinary difficulties like this, the onset was more insidious..Alternatively, it might be due to a worsening of the underlying condition(s). But it's odd how abruptly symptoms returned..And so similar to the original ones.

My big fear now is that the Quercetin has permanently pooped out on me
===========

Questions:

1) If I take the "quercetin break" NOW --being symptomatic and all--will its effectiveness likely return to its previous state when I resume?.

2) How long should this break be for?

Not sure if that 2-week suggestion is for the "4-6 weeks on 2 weeks off" pattern. Or is it same amount of time after long term uninterrupted use?

I had actually been considering to switch to a more bio-available form of Quercetin called :

"EMIQ® (Enzymatically Modified Isoquercitrin)

when those symptoms returned

Supposedly is 40 times better absorbed. Or alternatively, to up the Quercetin dose to the recommended 1,000 mg daily, if I'm even able to tolerate that- gastro-intestinally

But now that I see this post of yours from 2018, I'm thinking maybe I should sweat this out. Take that break, return to the form that worked so well, and revisit the EMIQ-modified Quercetin- issue once this "quercetin break" issue is settled?

I'm a bit apprehensive about stopping something that had been working well even briefly. Not sure if its doing much now though..

In any case, I'd deeply appreciate your input both on whether a break would likely restore the prior effectiveness and how long should this break be for.

Thank you kindly:
~elias~


Hello Elias, sorry to hear about your relapse. Unfortunately there is no real answer I can give you as to why it happened or if taking a different form will help. I try to be honest only based on my own symptoms and how supplements or drugs have affected me. Your condition or what’s at the root of it may have changed or become worse for reasons unknown. It could be temporary, so maybe it’s best not to overthink this so soon after it’s happened. One thing I have been doing for several months now is using a heating pad for around 3 hours a day. In the past I would use it for 20 or so minute intervals, now I keep it directed on my prostate for an hour or more at a time several times per day. I’m retired so I have the time to do it. Not everyone can, but I feel it’s been very helpful. If that is something you can do you might try it for a week or so and see if things calm down. As I have said over and over here there is no one answer for a cause or treatment when it comes to the prostate. Let me know how you’re doing and I will try to help in any way I can.


Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:59 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 59
Post Re: Quercetin abruptly stopped working! Help!: Attention:Mad
Thanks Madcap:

I'm mostly wondering now what your hypothesis here below that Quercetin can after long use without a break make the condition worse is based on?
Quote:

" Quercetin acts as an anti inflammatory but if used for too long a period of time can have the opposite effect."


Was this something you had personally experienced, or something someone just speculated?

Also, the two week break --after 4-6 weeks you spoke of last year. Might it be a lesser amount of time?

==============================

Before this relapse of the prostatitis of a week ago, I've been having some very bad flareup of my IBS. Which does keep waking me often as well..Throughout my many year ordeal with prostatitis, I've found those two conditions intimately linked and feed off each other..So it's also quite possible that the flareup of urinary symptoms now are being driven by the IBS. I'm under care of gastroenterologist for that. He speculated possibly some hyperactivity of the nervous system (among tow possibilities he put forth) and was considering SSRI type of antidepressant to address that...I never had good experience with those..But there is one-Trazodone (Desyril)- vaguely in that family- I was able to tolerate well many years back..It had the very welcome side-effect of making you sleepy...In any case, that hyperactivity of the nervous system might also be cause of the very recent prostatitis relapse as well?

I did have a few very brief relapses during the time Quercetin was working well..They usually lasted only a few days. But because I was able to get a few nights of sleep..those were mild and transient. The continuous waking every hour this time around might be whats making this relapse much worse and more stubborn

=====================
In any case, I'm at a loss now about what to do about the Quercetin..Whether to stop it a while and see what happens? If so, for how long? Or to continue or even up the dose to the therapeutically recommended level? Obviously I cant do both same time..

Would be a shame to give up on something that worked so faithfully for very long..I've read everything in the scientific literature on Quercetin I could get my hands on and found no mention of adverse effects, or it starting to do the opposite thing during continuous long term use. Of course doesnt mean it doesnt occur.

But just would like to know what this conjecture is based on..

Gonna try very hot bath now. It helps much a while but doesnt stop me from waking an hour later with same symptoms. Heating pad sounds like good idea.

Thanks again

~elias!


Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:56 am
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:30 am
Posts: 836
Post Re: Quercetin abruptly stopped working! Help!: Attention:Mad
elias wrote:
Thanks Madcap:

I'm mostly wondering now what your hypothesis here below that Quercetin can after long use without a break make the condition worse is based on?
Quote:

" Quercetin acts as an anti inflammatory but if used for too long a period of time can have the opposite effect."


Was this something you had personally experienced, or something someone just speculated?

Also, the two week break --after 4-6 weeks you spoke of last year. Might it be a lesser amount of time?

==============================

Before this relapse of the prostatitis of a week ago, I've been having some very bad flareup of my IBS. Which does keep waking me often as well..Throughout my many year ordeal with prostatitis, I've found those two conditions intimately linked and feed off each other..So it's also quite possible that the flareup of urinary symptoms now are being driven by the IBS. I'm under care of gastroenterologist for that. He speculated possibly some hyperactivity of the nervous system (among tow possibilities he put forth) and was considering SSRI type of antidepressant to address that...I never had good experience with those..But there is one-Trazodone (Desyril)- vaguely in that family- I was able to tolerate well many years back..It had the very welcome side-effect of making you sleepy...In any case, that hyperactivity of the nervous system might also be cause of the very recent prostatitis relapse as well?

I did have a few very brief relapses during the time Quercetin was working well..They usually lasted only a few days. But because I was able to get a few nights of sleep..those were mild and transient. The continuous waking every hour this time around might be whats making this relapse much worse and more stubborn

=====================
In any case, I'm at a loss now about what to do about the Quercetin..Whether to stop it a while and see what happens? If so, for how long? Or to continue or even up the dose to the therapeutically recommended level? Obviously I cant do both same time..

Would be a shame to give up on something that worked so faithfully for very long..I've read everything in the scientific literature on Quercetin I could get my hands on and found no mention of adverse effects, or it starting to do the opposite thing during continuous long term use. Of course doesnt mean it doesnt occur.

But just would like to know what this conjecture is based on..

Gonna try very hot bath now. It helps much a while but doesnt stop me from waking an hour later with same symptoms. Heating pad sounds like good idea.

Thanks again

~elias!


In my experience I noticed inflammation in my joints, specifically the knees, if I remained on it too long. I read this is possible but I can’t remember where I found the information. It isn’t the same in every case so this could show up somewhere else or not at all. It was just listed as a possibility. I did not start the breaks until I personally experienced it. I’m off of it at the moment and would normally be ready to go back but have a surgery coming up soon so don’t want to start it until I get past that.

As for the heating pad I’ve found it far superior to the soaking. The heating pad allows you to keep a steady flow of heat on the area without the inconvenience encountered in soaking in water, plus you can do it while watching TV, reading etc. I have it on now. It’s just easy to do providing you have the time.


Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:09 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 59
Post Re: Quercetin abruptly stopped working! Help!: Attention:Mad
Thanks again, Madcap:

Well it then does seem there might be some basis for taking breaks. Intuitively, if something is behaving like a "medicine", even if it's made from foods, it makes sense to go off it for periods because the body begins to form some "tolerance" or even "resistance" to its effects after a while and may react against it..Quercetin had kicked in so rapidly and dramatically for me that I'll treat it as if it were some "medication" and take as needed..

I'm on my 3rd day of my "quercetin abstinence" so 11 left to go...and will take from how I'm doing then. I think I can hold out for that 2 week break.. Either return to previous dose or try that EMIQ highly absorbable metabolite..Depending on how I'm doing....I'm inclined towards the "less is more" approach

I see now from my own posts on this very forum that I indeed did indeed take a 3 month hiatus last year from the Quercetin: Jan 2019-March 2019. When I went back on it, the positive effects kicked in yet again within a mere few days...So I lost no ground by going off..I make such a fuss about this partly because Quercetin is so far the only natural supplement to have done anything positive for me ever...So I sure hope it hasn't pooped out on me for good...
=========================

The level of heat that I need to get rid of urinary urgency is way beyond anything that a heating pad might supply. I take extremely hot baths and need ~20 minutes of it to point of discomfort to get relief. However, I'm thinking that after such torture baths, perhaps trying to sleep with heating pad on lower abdomen--at low heat- will give me a few hours of uninterrupted sleep. Which would be a Godsend..

==========================

During this hiatus, might be good idea to see if this gadget called "Resperate" might help with this. It's used to guide breathing rate down to very slow. It's very different approach than the many apps for deep breathing, because it has a sensor and guides you almost imperceptibly down from your ambient breathing rate to as low as 5 breaths per minute...I did a few sessions last night and got some sleep finally..So we shall see if it might help as well with my other maladies...The FDA approved it for lowering blood pressure. but they're now selling a similar app/gadget for deeper sleep..Supposedly takes a few weeks of use to see results...So at least I'll feel like I'm trying something during the Quercetin break to help , instead of just sitting back and suffering...Of course if it helps some with the prostatitis, I'd eagerly post to the group here about it

Thanks again for the explanation about the hiatus. Many important observations are simply not published. So one has to rely on other peoples reliable reports and experiences..

~elias~


Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:35 pm
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:55 am
Posts: 441
Post Re: Quercetin abruptly stopped working! Help!: Attention:Mad
To state it plainly, 5 breaths per minute is dangerous territory, and shouldn't be a goal to get sleep. Have you tried Valerian Root? It's really helpful for going to sleep, and it's a natural herb. Doesn't require much to get a potent effect, and it's also a pain reliever. Two other things come to my mind that may truly help you get relief from the pain and acquire necessary sleep:

Deep tissue massage / myofascial therapy

Chamomile tea

Those might be attempted already, but I suggest doing those. Ativan is another medicine that may help alleviate problems and support proper rest. I only take 0.5 mg twice daily, and after a few years it is still working. The average dose is 2-3 mg, and probably more than 1-2x per day. But chamomile tea, especially with some turmeric and cinnamon mixed in could infuse the right stuff to improve sleeping. I know massage is expensive usually, but it's also a great relief of the pain, even in indirect ways. The muscles and tissues, and viscera, connecting in the pelvis need healing and fixing after continuous bouts of chronic pain and tension. Any anti-bac medicine is likely not going to suffice by itself or merely with another medicine, though it is probable in lots of cases. What I'm saying is, if it's not working, then myofascial / deep tissue massage and a few other things in combination can become a solution.


Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:55 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 59
Post Re: Quercetin abruptly stopped working! Help!: Attention:Mad
Thank you, presto:

--It isnt specifically pain that wakes me often and at times keeps me awake. Its urinary urgency..I guess it can be seen as a type of "pain" or noxious sensation..

--Much of those times I don't really need to pee, but just have sensation that I do..So its a bit of false signals..And it adds to the frustration greatly when nothing comes out..Maybe cause not much there..

Oddly, this mostly happens when I'm woken from sleep by the urgency. Seems I'm not getting symptoms much during the day-- during hours I'm awake. So must be something bout how my nervous system is working specifically while I'm asleep? This might be a useful clue?

--I'm not sure 5 breaths/min is dangerous if you're gradually directed into it by biofeedback device...Most of the session you're between 10-7 bpm anyhow...5 bpm is merely endpoint. I can always set the default time for the session for less, as not go that slow. But so far, seems ok in that zone

--None of those those sleeping aids would do anything for me, except for perhaps Ativan..Doctors no longer prescribe benzos for long-term use..In my case, it would be justified, but no way of getting it

Thanks again


Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:29 pm
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:23 am
Posts: 11
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Post Re: Quercetin abruptly stopped working! Help!: Attention:Mad
I see it's been a couple of years since anyone responded, but regarding getting up at night to pee, have you tried Minirin (desmopression) ? Wroks well for me. I've gone from 3-4 times a night to 0-1 or sometimes 2x. It's pretty safe, no side effects.


Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:02 pm
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