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 Bacterial Cause or Not? 
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:38 pm
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Post Bacterial Cause or Not?
I'm not trying to start a debate, but as I suffer from this pain and irritation, I too am searching for an answer as to what is causing it. Mine, like many others, started after an oral sex event. However, there was a TON of stress in my life during this time as well as overwhelming guilt and anxiety about the event itself. This board in particular is really focused on bacterial causes of prostatitis. I am too, however I'm really conflicted. This is what I've seen thus far from other posters and gathered from my research:

1) Guys are taking long-reaching steps to find a bacteria that may or may not exist, as well as challenging doctors on their advice. (Yes, I know, docs don't know it all).

2) Incredible amounts of antibiotics are being taken, one after another, only to see an overwhelmingly majority of people complain of the symptoms returning upon ceasing the drugs. Is this the anti-inflammatory characteristics of these drugs having an affect, or could it even be a placebo affect?

3) Only 5% - 10% of prostatitis is bacterial, and if it were acute, there are symtpoms that would be strong enough for you to know it similar to flu-like; chills, fever, etc. I haven't seen anyone here report anything that severe.

4) Even if prostate fluid contained Ureaplasma/mycoplasma, how would anyone know when that bacteria was introduced to your system? These bacteria are present in over 50% of people, and I'm sure this is not the first time any of us have had sexual relations. Further, if these were symptomatic in men, there would certainly be a urethritis-like response out of the urethra; burning and/or discharge. Without that, and only pain, how can we not consider non-bacterial CPPS?

I'm struggling to find answers too, and I cannot stomach the coincidence of an oral sex event either. But all of that listed above seems like a witch hunt to me, and reading the book "Headache in the Pelvis" seems to be a little more sensible to me. Hope to have a good discussion about it.


Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:31 am
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:53 pm
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
1) Yes we are. I am a firm believer that deep down people known their own body, and know when this is bacterial or not.
2) Could be many reasons.
3) That information is just plain wrong, in my opinion. I think 5% of cases are Acute, some large percentage are bacterial, and another small percentage are CPPS. I fit the category of non bacterial prostatitis by American standards, however after doing more lab work outside the country that was proven wrong.
4) If you have pure pain only in your perineum, then yes maybe the book is for you. I started with ureathritis on/off for 2 years, had many no symptom days, then actually got a LOT better for a while then the golf ball feeling and frequent urination came. Also have calcifciations. I am not wasting my time on stretches while my prostate is eaten away by bacteria.


Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:07 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
dom_hend wrote:
1) Yes we are. I am a firm believer that deep down people known their own body, and know when this is bacterial or not.
2) Could be many reasons.
3) That information is just plain wrong, in my opinion. I think 5% of cases are Acute, some large percentage are bacterial, and another small percentage are CPPS. I fit the category of non bacterial prostatitis by American standards, however after doing more lab work outside the country that was proven wrong.
4) If you have pure pain only in your perineum, then yes maybe the book is for you. I started with ureathritis on/off for 2 years, had many no symptom days, then actually got a LOT better for a while then the golf ball feeling and frequent urination came. Also have calcifciations. I am not wasting my time on stretches while my prostate is eaten away by bacteria.



Out of curiosity, what was your exposure that you feel caused your condition, assuming sexually related? Also, you say you experienced urethritis for a while, can you describe those symptoms? I have been paranoid about that myself, did a number of urine tests, asked a million questions to docs, but they say I definitely do not have that since no discharge, pain in urination, or WBC’s in basic office urinalysis. However, I do experience penile pain, but I’m being told it’s referring from muscle/nerve tension in the region. I’ll also add, for my particular situation, I’m a 12/10 on the anxiety scale if it matters.


Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:59 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:40 pm
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
I can speak from my experience if that helps. Mine was about 1.5 weeks after risky unprotected oral sex, it started as a warm sensation in my penis which progressively got worse to the point where my whole penis felt hot. I had no pain during urination no rash no sores no lesions visible internal or external. My glans appeared much larger than normal and swollen, my urethra was bright red inside, and specifically around the urethral opening it was almost purplish. Definitely felt and looked swollen. All tests negative, no WBC. A prostate exam yielded that the prostate was "boggy". Antibiotics seemed to help with these major symptoms to a degree, but after they went away I was left with skin sensitivity on my thighs and groin, perineum pain that came and went, and a sharp and otherwise dull pain in the underside of the tip of the penis.

This was 16 weeks ago and I consistently have tested negative for all STIs and bacteria in urine and blood that could account for symptoms, however I lived and loved many women prior to this event for 29 years and never felt this way. I feel strongly that my symptoms started as a result of some infection, whether or not that infection is still there is up for debate. However I do know I had been feeling much better recently after 2 weeks of no masturbation and that now today after masturbating last night I have pain at the tip again as well as in my thighs. I still think I have some infection in my prostate or semen and when I don't masturbate my body has a chance to take care of it but after I do masturbate I am just flooding my urethra with these bacteria again and causing recurrent symptoms. I'm living in a constant hell where I can't have sex with my girlfriend because if I do, even with a condom, I'm in pain for days after.

I've seen a pelvic PT for my first session and will continue to see her, because the anxiety and guilt is real and even if I don't have an infection anymore it could have been a causative factor in referred pain, but I'm not going to give up exploring the infection too because I can't dismiss the fact that this began after the only time I've ever made the mistake of being unfaithful and I felt 100% fine and symptom free before hand.


Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:07 pm
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
Man I feel for you. What a ride, it’s maddening. My guilt is a 12/10 so I’m pretty sure that has something to do with it. I’m not going to chase the infection theory, although I have one more planned uro visit. I as well have had a ton of bj’s and plenty of unsafe sex in my life and all of a sudden, one <2 min bj form a massage chick and I’m all messed up. In my case, the stakes have never been higher. I have to assign some weight to that. It’s crushing me. But, I’m sure if I didn’t have all of that going on, I’d still feel the same. I just don’t know what to do.


Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:31 am
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:55 am
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
Why do you assume it's related to or directly caused by your experience with the massage chick? Every bacterial species that is identified to cause prostatitis and urethritis and such is in the soil, water, and often in food. E. coli, E. faecalis, Strepto., Myco and Ureaplasma...these bacteria and even fungi and viruses aren't only using humans as vectors/carriers. They're more prevalent and survive easier more often in places where they're not exposed to an immune system, and have plenty more to select from for food and energy needs. Besides the fact that most bacteria don't get past the stomach. Tests are done with high chances of contamination, and if aren't colonized by unintended bacteria, proving it is a certain non-resistant or resistant strain/species is basically a moot point since abx cannot do a sufficient job in most cases we read about. I think it is time the medical community re-examine the bacteria they give so much credit to because there is overwhelming evidence that current understanding and knowledge isn't doing much at all for most people suffering from the conditions they are "secretly" causing. Patients need to slow down in comparing notes to get perspective of their own personal experiences and thoughts, and then try to solve their problems of pain and difficulty without the mass accumulation of scientific data and health wiz mumbo jumbo that creates a seemingly interminable waste of effort and time and hunt for causality. Stop abx's, stol therapy, stop diet modifications, and stop uro /Dr visits altogether to see what happens. Even for a month. And stop trying to figure it out as if you and I are experts. Let our brains rest and recuperate, and let the docs regain confidence in their lack of expertise regarding mysterious diseases. Then perhaps the answers start surfacing and are within reasonable, non-invasive, and not so confusing reach.


Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:49 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
Great post! I agree, and am cancelling my uro appointment, and going to try like hell to forget about it. my brain needs a freaking rest....



presto423 wrote:
Why do you assume it's related to or directly caused by your experience with the massage chick? Every bacterial species that is identified to cause prostatitis and urethritis and such is in the soil, water, and often in food. E. coli, E. faecalis, Strepto., Myco and Ureaplasma...these bacteria and even fungi and viruses aren't only using humans as vectors/carriers. They're more prevalent and survive easier more often in places where they're not exposed to an immune system, and have plenty more to select from for food and energy needs. Besides the fact that most bacteria don't get past the stomach. Tests are done with high chances of contamination, and if aren't colonized by unintended bacteria, proving it is a certain non-resistant or resistant strain/species is basically a moot point since abx cannot do a sufficient job in most cases we read about. I think it is time the medical community re-examine the bacteria they give so much credit to because there is overwhelming evidence that current understanding and knowledge isn't doing much at all for most people suffering from the conditions they are "secretly" causing. Patients need to slow down in comparing notes to get perspective of their own personal experiences and thoughts, and then try to solve their problems of pain and difficulty without the mass accumulation of scientific data and health wiz mumbo jumbo that creates a seemingly interminable waste of effort and time and hunt for causality. Stop abx's, stol therapy, stop diet modifications, and stop uro /Dr visits altogether to see what happens. Even for a month. And stop trying to figure it out as if you and I are experts. Let our brains rest and recuperate, and let the docs regain confidence in their lack of expertise regarding mysterious diseases. Then perhaps the answers start surfacing and are within reasonable, non-invasive, and not so confusing reach.


Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:36 am
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:55 am
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
I'm not making another uro appointment for quite some time. I'm tired of being written off and shrugged off by so-called professionals. To let you know, my bachelor's degree is in environmental science (biology emphasis). I had a class in microbial ecology in which I learned that bacteria and other micro-organisms are all over the place.

I have / have had tons of questions too. I did a culture of tree bark from 3 different tree species to detect microbes (microbes is a general term for any microscopic organism, yet also includes viruses). There were several different microbes in the petri dish that I cultured after simply swabbing with a q-tip from the inside of the bark. They actually formed colonies in separate areas of the petri dish too.

If bacteria are the cause of some cases of prostatitis and other similar conditions, then it's obvious that something other than the common abx needs to be developed. However, according to numerous studies and information out there, those same pathogenic species of bacteria and even fungi are in the human gut, mouth, and could then hypothetically be passed into the urinary tract. I don't understand why people are so fixated on sexually transmitted bacteria when the bacteria are already there, and are much more present and thriving in the "environment" around us. No scientific study has yet determined a range of how much of a certain species is required to cause disease, let alone how long it takes for a species to go through its life cycle in a test subject's gut.

It may be that abx-resistant bacteria are resisting because they're at a certain point in their life cycle that protects them from it, or it could be that there is so much for them to utilize to their advantage in a human microbial ecosystem (proteins, metals, compounds of various types, and the immune system) that it's easy for them to protect themselves from abx. And after years of study and developing abx, especially the quinolones, a non-side-effect causing medicine hasn't gotten developed? I'm not trying to slam the doctors and scientists specifically. I'm simply attaining a more realistic perspective of where things are at regarding these seemingly ubiquitous living things. It's high time the industry begin new inquiries and with more careful and deeper consideration of the patient's realm of experience, not testing mice/rats/monkeys/rabbits and small trials conducted on the basis of how results compare between a fake set of criteria and a real set.

Mendel and others in the past didn't learn about genetics and such by comparing fake against real for the most part. They compared and contrasted the results they found with the hypotheses they used to gather insight. And they were limited in some ways technologically compared to current times. What's more is the plethora of drugs that continue to get made and engineered on the basis of remotely operating studies that haven't really delved into the quandaries that various conditions present. Yet they continue advertising them on tv and non-insured prices increase due to pharmaceutical bureaucracy gone wild. It's like a new gold rush, only humans are the mines and streams, and the industry is the cart so to speak.


Sorry to get so into questioning and ranting...it's just that I refuse to continue pampering the supposed givers of solutions with blind trust and an unlucky gamble. No, I'm not trying to confuse or mislead you either. I'm currently only receiving myofasical release trigger point therapy with stretching / electrical stimulation / 5-10 minutes of recumbent biking, and taking lorazepam (Ativan) and escitalopram(Lexapro), both of which I'm more seriously considering stopping sooner than later. I hope you get the rest you need and replenish the energy you've lost, similar to how I have, at no avail.


Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:53 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
My guess is, and in my case would ring true, is that the guys who are fixated on a bacterial cause and seeking treatments with abx are more so doing this because they regret the sexual exposure that got them here in the first place, likely outside of their regular relationship. The mental and emotional drain of fearing there could be a parasite of sorts that could be transmitted to your regular partner is overwhelming. Furthermore, even if something like Ureaplasma/Mycoplasma are normally in the genital tract, how could one logically explain to their S/O that "it must have been there the whole time," if God forbid they started experiencing some sort of symptoms?

For me, I know it's a freaking stretch to accept that notion. I've been tested numerous times, for everything, all negative. However, if I ask Dr. Google, I could theoretically come up with a person or two who tested positive for UU, but it still doesn't prove anything, it very well could have been there before. The online docs say there is no documented/proven link between these pathogens causing prostatitis, especially in the absence of the more heavy hitters, Gon and chlamydia.

My uro looked at me like I was nuts, said my urine was fine, my prostate feels fine, and said it's likely all in my head. I just have to stop being such a stubborn bastard and actually believe it.


Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:31 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:40 pm
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
I think your doctors do you a disservice by trying to convince you that it's all in your head when you felt fine before and then didn't feel fine afterwards. Most of our symptoms line up with the appropriate timeline for an invader to have done damage, at least I know mine do. No amount of mental health therapy will change the fact that I felt completely normal, and then I didn't, and still don't. The constant feeling of pin pricks and itching in my thighs, perineum, and butt, the pain in the tip of penis, the feeling that I have a sore on my testicles that isn't actually there... i actually had a boil appear on one testicle after about 10 weeks which was popped and swabbed for culture but didn't come back with any identifiable bacteria.

It did respond to antibiotic cream though and has now gone away, but the feeling remains.

I didn't even feel any guilt in my exposure until AFTER my symptoms appeared, so I can't see how it's all in my head when my head was fine before I became symptomatic. This can't just be our brain playing tricks, it's too coincidental and i don't believe I suddenly developed a mental disorder that causes physical pain.

Good luck to you all but I disagree with this approach of "forgetting about it", that's exactly what the doctors want


Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:48 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
I know, it's maddening. Logic tells me that this can't be coincidental. However, everyone here is doing some deep digging without any real results. I'm fearful of heading down that road to just be disappointed.

Even if there were some sort of infection, I assume it is not transmissible? My wife is headed in to get a routine pap test and I'm a bit paranoid about it. Perhaps I shouldn't be, as I've tested negative for all STI's numerous times. But the fear remains. Anyone have experience with this?


Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:23 am
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:35 pm
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
I just had my first injection from Dr Duke Bahn in Ventura Ca. I have been dealing with burning for 7 years and have taken to many antibiotics. I would get the symptoms to die down a little but never completely gone. It started when I was told I had low testosterone and thats why I felt tired so I started TRT. The dose was to high for me and my Prostate swelled up and got inflamed. I think this was the start of my problems because I had no issues before. I have been Happily married 25 years and have never had sex with prostitutes or anything like that.
Today was my first injection and Dr Duke Bahn showed me the inflammation on the the screen I had a infected left seminal vesicle that was 2.5 times the size of the right one. Also in the color monitor he showed that the body was sending more blood to the infected area. My left prostate lobe was also infected in the area close to the seminal vesicle.
After the injections I left and got a taxi to my hotel and walked on the seawall for about 1.5 mile and feel good not really any pain. I will be going in for 3 more sets of injections. The injections so far aren't as bad as the burning and suffering I have been through over the past 6.5 months because the antibiotics were not working any more. I will keep updating as I progress after I have completed all the injections. I am so glad I went to have the scan of my prostate and could see the problem.


Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:07 pm
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:05 pm
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Post Re: Bacterial Cause or Not?
stanfelder wrote:
I know, it's maddening. Logic tells me that this can't be coincidental. However, everyone here is doing some deep digging without any real results. I'm fearful of heading down that road to just be disappointed.

Even if there were some sort of infection, I assume it is not transmissible? My wife is headed in to get a routine pap test and I'm a bit paranoid about it. Perhaps I shouldn't be, as I've tested negative for all STI's numerous times. But the fear remains. Anyone have experience with this?


Depends on the bacteria you have. From I learned Women have more WBCs in their vagina naturally than men so it will usually fight it before it has chance to grow. Also a lot of the infections we have can cause miscarriages or infertility. For example staph. A lot of the times infertility is bacteria in the prostate =/


Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:23 pm
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