Visit Prostatitis.org    
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:01 pm



Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches? 
Author Message

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Hello:

As posted earlier, I'm taking daily Silodosin- an Alpha-1 blocker for urinary difficulties. I'm now at the 4-week point..It is working amazingly well!l. The drawback is adverse side effects. And I'm averse to discontinuing without an alternative..

Throughout my history of prostatitis--which now may be morphing with BPH symptoms--urinary difficulties such as frequent, urgency and incomplete bladder emptying were way more troublesome than pain. I got a pretty good handle on that after much trial and error via stress reduction and exercise. But this present bout hs been pretty bad..

Apparently the alpha-blocker is working because it relaxes the smooth muscles in the bladder neck and prostate.

Which brings me to my question here:

I see a dazzling array of complementary remedies used for prostatitis. Some undoubtedly do work. But: No one can reasonably try all of these. So I'm trying to isolate which of those are most likely to achieve smooth muscle relaxation.

For example: Quercetin/Bromelain is often recommended as an anti-inflammatory. While I have high number of inflammatory cells in prostatic secretion, pain/inflammation is not among my main symptom. And the pain is now all gone with the Silodosin...which has no anti-inflammatory properties..

I am currently taking flower pollen (Graminex) along with low amounts of pumpkin seed oil

*********************

Anyone know which of the OTC available ingredients/ supplements--or other modalities-- are likely work primarily by relaxing smooth (involuntary) muscles of the urinary tract?

Thanks

~elias~


Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:51 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:30 am
Posts: 819
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Pumpkin seed oil has been used for a very long time to help with urinary flow, but in my opinion the capsules are of little to no use. I use a tablespoon of Styrian pumpkin seed oil about 1 hour before bedtime. Some people use 2. Can’t post a link to the one I use but just pm me if you want it. You can find American made oil but it’s from a different type of pumpkin and in my opinion doesn’t work.


Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:02 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Hi there, Madcap:

I did purchase; 100% pure Styrian pumpkin seed oil from Austria , as you had recommended.. A bit hard on the digestion for me (IBS-C) so I'm going easy on it and maybe increase it very slowly..Its actually very tasty..

Would you happen know if the pumpkin oil works primarily as anti-inflammatory? Or does it help relax smooth, involuntary muscles of the urinary tract as well?

================
My question here pertains to isolating several of the major issues here: Inflammation and smooth muscle spasms (hyeprtonicity).

My urinary symptoms are 90% gone now!! With the Silodosin. Except I hate the side-effects...Silodosin--as an alpha blocker-- has no anti-inflammatory properties, nor does it shrink prostate tissue. All it does is relax involuntary muscles by blocking adrenergic receptors. Supposedly, mostly in urinary tract, but apparently it's doing some unwanted things as well....

I'm noticing that most of the OTC complementary medicine modalities claim to work by reducing inflammation. Not sure if that's really the case.. However, I'm sure some likely work by smooth muscle relaxation as well...So I'm trying to narrow the field somewhat, if possible. By focusing on which of these r more likely to achieve what the Tamsulosin/Silodosin class of alpha-blocking meds achieve--but without some of those adverse effects..

It's not so cut and dry , because often those two are both present, and each amplifies the other... From my past diagnoses, I do have inflammation as well.. But from my response to the Silodosin, and by my long history with chronic prostatitis, I can say that the muscle spasm is the dominant source of urinary difficulty for me.

Thanks again and hoping for your input..

~elias~


Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:38 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:30 am
Posts: 819
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
I’m not sure how it works, but I notice a difference soon after taking it. I was doing it twice a day but went back to just once before bedtime. I don’t really consider it anti inflammatory but here’s one theory as to how it helps.

Pumpkin seed oil is one of nature’s greatest allies in the treatment of urinary incontinence. European literature cites pumpkin seeds as an effective treatment for urinary problems as far back as the 1500’s. Native American Indians used pumpkin seed for urinary disorders. Also, German health authorities have approved pumpkin seeds as a treatment for irritable bladder and urinary symptoms related to prostate enlargement.

When the production of nitric oxide levels is low there is increased bladder activity and reduced bladder volume. Pumpkin seed oil increases nitric oxide synthesis. The other known reason for its benefit is its hormonal effects. Pumpkin seed oil has a tissue building effect on the pelvic floor muscles. It does this by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme which makes more active testosterone available to the pelvic muscles, allowing them to strengthen.


Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:11 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Thank you so kindly, Madcap for taking the time...

I'm proceeding with the Styrian pumpkin oil but slowly..It is a healthy food regardless..

I have difficulty digesting foods like olive oil and the like for some reason, and when my IBS acts up, so does the prostatitis..So its a bit of a balancing act here...But definitely worth a shot.

Irritable bladder and prostatitis may have much in common, btw..At least in my case they seem to

Quote:
"When the production of nitric oxide levels is low there is increased bladder activity and reduced bladder volume. Pumpkin seed oil increases nitric oxide synthesis. "


This does stand out for me! Something about nitric oxide also being involved in constricting/dilating blood vessels. So now I'm wondering if it might do something similar for the urinary tract, making the stream "more relaxed" A few months ago, before this crisis, I was attempting to resolve my "white coat hypertension" by different modes of smooth muscle relaxation of the blood vessels. Beet juice is one of the foods suggested for that. Precisely because it increases NO availability. I didn't pursue it for long...Have you come across any references to beet juice or other such foods (besides the pumpkin oil) which might have such an effect on the urinary tract?

Thanks again for your summary about what is known about the pumpkin seed oil

~elias~


Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:35 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:30 am
Posts: 819
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Elias, interesting you ask about beet juice. I have no experience with it, although I’ve heard about the various things it does, specifically the nitric oxide levels, so I ordered a capsule to try. Not received it yet, but I have never liked beets so eating or drinking the juice I doubt I would enjoy. In supplement form maybe I can tolerate it. Either way sounds like something worth considering.


Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:53 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Back then, when i was considering beet juice for blood pressure, I was trying to get clarification as to whether cooking beets into a soup would give the same desired NO effect. Juicing them was too messy....Anyhow, i couldn't get info on this..So I dropped it....

There r lots of ways to prepare beet soup which can be quite tasty--unlike raw beet juice..Its a delicacy in Russian/Ukrainian cuisine and they're quite inventive with adding vegetables an cabbage.etc..to it

The Nitric Oxide approach would well be worth pursuing if there were some indication that it relaxes smooth muscles in the urinary tract --and not just in blood vessels...I know the receptors are a bit different (alpha 1a versus alpha 1b or c?) So offhand I dont know if NO has any effect on bladder neck/prostate muscles. It sure opens up some good options if indeed it does


Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:00 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:11 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Canada
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
check out an amino acid for Nitric Oxide levels:

L-Arginine


Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:01 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Thanks. Many things can do this! Including Niacin, which is now way too inexpensive to be touted as a "prostate" aid..So we will not likely hear of this even if it can help much

The outstanding question for me here is if Nitric Oxide has similar effect on urinary tract muscle as it does on vascular ones?


Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:15 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
There may be something to this NO connection after all. But I cant say I understand all this well enough to conclude whether beet juice, beet soup or even niacin would be helpful...

Here is but one research article on the issue of NO and urinary tract muscle relaxation:

"The nitric oxide pathway in the human prostate: clinical implications in men with lower urinary tract symptoms."
Kedia GT1, Uckert S, Jonas U, Kuczyk MA, Burchardt M

World J Urol. 2008 Dec;26(6):603-9. doi: 10.1007/s00345-008-0303-y. Epub 2008 Jul 8.

===========

Quote:
" Thus, given a potential role of the NO-pathway in the prostate and/or in other parts of lower urinary tract (e.g. bladder), the enhancement of the NO signaling by NO donor drugs, PDE5 inhibitors or activators of the soluble guanylyl cyclase (sGC) may represent a new therapeutic strategy for the treatment of LUTS. This review serves to focus on the role of NO and the NO-dependent signaling in the control of smooth muscle function in the human prostate. Results from clinical trials in men with LUTS/BPH are also discussed."


The PDE 5 inhibitors mentioned are drugs like Viagra which are now in fact being used for LUTS (Lower Urinary Tract Symptoms)

Whether taking outside sources for NO would help as well would probably not be discussed in that full article..So not sure if its worth my purchasing it..Though i'm tempted to...

~elias~


Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:23 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 2:59 pm
Posts: 663
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
I know of a few herbs that may help. Particularly, kava is a fairly strong muscle relaxant and is pretty relaxing generally, its used for problems like frequent urination in interstitial cystitis. Search google for 'herbs for health muscle relaxants'.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:42 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
I am seeing quite a number of references to a "NANC (Non-adrenergic, non-cholinergic) relaxation pathway" for smooth muscles if the urinary tract.. As well references to NO synthesized from L-arginine. I'm seeing this in the medical literature. But --as expected--not finding any practical suggestions for modulating this...Outside of that "Viagra" link to NO..

Its quite a jump from seeing Arginine playing a key role in this to concluding that ingesting supplementary Arginine facilitates such relaxation...

I had mentioned beet juice earlier only because that been documented scientifically to temporarily lower blood pressure because of its high nitrate content--> breaking down to NO. So was wondering if it might do same for smooth muscles in urinary tract. There are many other foods with high nitrate as well. But i havent seen those studied for NO.


Be interesting to know if researchers in the field of complementary medicine for prostatitis/BPH have looked into this approach?

=======================
Madcap: You did mention pumpkin seed oil in terms of NO synthesis..So this is making more sense now...I'll need to increase it slowly because of digestive reasons. But I'm mixing it with salad for now..


~elias~


Last edited by elias on Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:50 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:11 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Canada
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
I've taken A LOT of supplements since I got whatever I've got. Spent lots of cash.

Nothing made 1 inch of difference. Not worth searching high and low for something magical. It doesn't exist.

I used to make my own beet, ginger, turmeric juice. Tastes great and is good for you. Didn't do anything for my symptoms.


Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:09 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 2:59 pm
Posts: 663
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
The thing is it probably does exist, i.e. something that can help that is natural, it just can be really hard to find. There are a lot of different variables, time taken, quality, selection, etc etc.

There is a Rudolf Steiner quote that goes something like this: "For every human illness, somewhere in the world there exists a plant which is the cure.". I think that is close to being correct, much more so than - it is hopeless and we should give up.


Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:03 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Not all alternative approaches entail herbs or plants. There are other effective non-pharmacologic modalities which may at least as effective.

Decades ago..I've used tai chi and acupuncture and got an excellent handle over my prostatitis. Much of this was really a mental discipline. Whereby I came to see the symptoms as manifestations of stressors way beyond the urinary tract. I "de-medicalized" the syndrome by vowing never to see a urologist again. And that worked just well for a few decades. I'd get my periodic bouts, but I recognized the "demon" and just let it ride itself out. As it quickly did..It worked quite well--up to the crisis of last month..

I'm in a different bind now because BPH has entered into the picture. And last month, I had some scary episodes where I couldn't pee at all for bout an hour. Somehow I knew to induce a bowel movement, and was able to pee again. Who knows why.....But still it was all very scary.

I went for the alpha-blocker, which pretty much relieved all urinary symptoms, but I'm having very difficult time tolerating this type of med. I also dread my imminent appointment with a urologist--which i keep cancelling-- so as to get different class of med used for BPH which might allow me to wean off the alpha blocker..

=====================

But heres the riddle:

All the alpha blocker is doing is relaxing smooth muscles allowing the urinary passages to dilate, and is in no way making my enlarged prostate any smaller. Or even acting as an anti-inflammatory.. Yet in the past, when it was just "prostatitis", I had achieved this very "smooth muscle relaxation" without any medication at all. I most definitely had severe spasms there during my prostatitis bouts, and somehow got control over this without urological intervention.

BPH symptoms are only 1/3 a matter of benign growth of the gland. Two thirds of the suffering it brings about comes down to inflammatory processes and involuntary muscle contractions-- often due to that very inflammation. The latter two are really "prostatitis". Which is why the medical treatments for both those conditions tend to overlap so much . Except for the surgery part to remove "overgrowth"...This is probably why only half the people with BPH have any symptoms at all...Often those with inflammatory processes accompanying the BPH...

So in theory, I should be able to get some control over this present crisis using some of the alternative methods I've successfully applied to my prostatitis in the past...

Hope this makes some sense. Not sure I'm explaining it well

~elias~


Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:24 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:11 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Canada
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Chris and Elias you make very valid points

I apologize for being so negative

at the end of my rope, I had a pudendal nerve block a week ago and now my pain is even worse


Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:50 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Is it mostly pain or difficulty urinating?


Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:23 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:11 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Canada
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
It is pain

horrible rectal burning, and pain/spasm in the bladder and urethra. Currently debilitated not able to work. Chronic pain clinic no help thus far.


Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:28 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Maybe u already tried this. But in case u havent:

Take a shallow hot bath, gradually increasing water temperature just to the point its too hot..careful not to scald! Give it 10-20 minutes. Lie down for about half an hour while applying ice pack to lower abdomen...Usually works for me


Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:35 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:11 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Canada
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
you are wise

I do use heat and cold packs, in fact I spend much of my day alternating them. It does help.


Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:44 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Posts: 52
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
shallow hot (very hot) bath might help more--and last longer-- than heat pack..i find it can often cut a muscle spasm..its a nuisance, but..


Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:38 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:30 am
Posts: 819
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Race, when you say rectal burning are you talking about the skin around the rectum?


Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:17 am
Profile

Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 2:59 pm
Posts: 663
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
It it were me, I'd do something like:

Diet: Keto or Paleolithic, plant based, not over eating, no refined sugar, white bread.
Exercise: Keep moving, walking, whatever you can manage. As elias pointed out tai chi or qi gong are relaxing and involve movement.
Herbs: Probably, ashwagandha long term with St. John's wort. Kava is v. good for muscle spasms. There is also magnesium that can be good for muscle spasms.

Probably use a multivitamin with vitamin D, K2, Mg, B vitamins in ready to absorb forms.

I also took kratom recently for chronic pain, it is pretty strong. Recommend it for severe cases and flair ups. Some people with Crohns are reporting remission with it on Reddit.


Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:35 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:11 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Canada
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Madcap: it's burning on the inside, feels higher up
Elias: I will do that
Chris: I take high doses of magnesium maleate as recommended by the pain clinic, but it has not helped. I will look into the diet changes, I do watch what I eat but I do eat whatever as well.

Where can I get Kratom?

thanks to all here


Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:04 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:30 am
Posts: 819
Post Re: Smooth Muscle Relaxation: Alternative approaches?
Race do you recall when this burning started? Did it begin with the other symptoms, start later, become worse at some point? Just trying to focus on 1 symptom at a time in case there might be a way to improve it.


Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:39 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.