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 Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:50 pm
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Post Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Sometimes bacteria doesn't show up on urine, blood, or even semen and prostate fluid cultures. Next Gen Sequencing (NGS) helps identify most of the bacteria in the prostate by testing the DNA of bacteria. It's similar to the PCR test but way more accurate. Here's a website that offers the service.

http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... m/urology/

This is a good test to see whether your problem is bacterial or not.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:10 am
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Interesting, I have asked if they ship the UK, will report back.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:01 am
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
There is a diverse biome of bacteria that exists in the urinary tract and prostate in all men, so it will still be hard to say if "X" bacteria is causing the problem or not. Studies have shown that that there is a very similar bacterial makeup in men with CPPS, and men without CPPS. Obviously if this test identifies chlamydia or something that obviously shouldn't be there, then this testing is useful, but otherwise, it might just muddy the waters even more.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:30 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
WS1234 wrote:
There is a diverse biome of bacteria that exists in the urinary tract and prostate in all men, so it will still be hard to say if "X" bacteria is causing the problem or not. Studies have shown that that there is a very similar bacterial makeup in men with CPPS, and men without CPPS. Obviously if this test identifies chlamydia or something that obviously shouldn't be there, then this testing is useful, but otherwise, it might just muddy the waters even more.


Wrong. NGS can detect which pathogens most likely causes disease and which pathogens don't, similar to how there is a difference between the good bacteria in your gut flora that don't cause any problems, and the bad bacteria that releases toxins and cause disease. The test can tell you which bacteria is the likely cause of your disease and they can also recommend you the appropriate antibiotics that will kill that bacteria. The test can also tell you which bacteria in your prostate has the antibiotic resistant genes. Not only can it tell you which bacteria is most likely causing your disease, it can tell you whether you have a fungal infection as well.

I know a guy who had prostatitis for 8 years, diagnosed as "nonbacterial". He did semen, EPS, urine cultures and were all negative. He finally took the NGS test after 8 years and they found the bacteria that was causing him prostate problems and the lab report showed him which antibiotic to take in order to kill it. He's 90% better now. If it wasn't for this test, he would of thought that he had "nonbacterial' prostatitis the whole time.

Do your research before you make conclusions about this test.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:11 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
i'm pretty well researched and have gone way down the bacterial route - better to be skeptical in my experience. I don't find it plausible that a mail-order test is any better than what leading hospitals around the developed world are utilizing. I don't doubt that they can detect bacteria, but I do very much doubt that they can say that of all the bacteria in the urinary system, THIS is the one that is causing the problem. Having said that, if you do undertake this testing and have a positive treatment outcome as a result (meaning you get 100% better), I'll eat my words ;)


Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:27 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
The problem is that on a lot of us antibiotic don't work. I have done a lot of cultures with antibiogram, then took the "right" antibiotic and nothing happened. They must start to think in other approachs to eliminate the bacterias. Phages sound fine but they are too far for most of us now.

The main problem is not indentifying the bacteria which is causing this, it's to eliminate it. If that can't be done the diagnostic is absurd, like it was in my case.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:16 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Or it could be the bacteria they are finding have nothing to do with your problem


Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:52 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
WS1234 wrote:
i'm pretty well researched and have gone way down the bacterial route - better to be skeptical in my experience. I don't find it plausible that a mail-order test is any better than what leading hospitals around the developed world are utilizing. I don't doubt that they can detect bacteria, but I do very much doubt that they can say that of all the bacteria in the urinary system, THIS is the one that is causing the problem. Having said that, if you do undertake this testing and have a positive treatment outcome as a result (meaning you get 100% better), I'll eat my words ;)


Wrong again. Like I said earlier, the NGS test can tell which pathogens that are causing the problem. Usually gram negative and only some gram positive species are responsible for prostate infections and the tests lets you know the name of each of the bacteria you have in the prostate, whether it is gram negative or gram positive, and which one is the one that is likely to be causing the disease (usually the gram negative and only some gram positive), and it also tells you the bacterial load of each. Bacteria that causes problems usually have the highest loads.

This test has advantage over semen, eps and prostate fluid cultures since a lot of the times bacteria don't grow on cultures so im not sure why you would say ngs isnt better than what leading hospitals around the world use, unless you weren't talking about semen and eps cultures?


I'm planning to do this testing but I'm not going to take antibiotics, Im going to use phages instead. And when i do get better i hope you have a big appetite haha.

And in my honest opinion, it is better to rule out bacteria first before anything. If one assumes it's bacterial and he's wrong, worst case scenario is you end up taking antibiotics for no reason. Yes its true there are dangerous antibiotics which is why i recommend you avoid any quinolines even if the test says it works for your bacteria. Always go for the safe ones if possible. Probiotics and yogurts can be taken after you finish the antibiotics so losing gut bacteria isnt that big of an issue. If you assume it's not bacterial and you're wrong, you would waste your time looking for things that work and if you do find something that works, it's goings to treat the symptoms not the root problem, allowing the infection to get worse as more time passes. The more time passes, the harder it is to beat the infection. And then you would have to continually manage your symptoms. E xactly what happened to me and the guy i mentioned who had it for 8 years. I suffer from prostatitis for 6 years, if i had figured out that my problem was bacterial after a year or two instead of believing it was non bacterial which is what's 4 urologists told me, i would have a much better chance of beating it 1-2 years into it vs now. Just want to encourage the new guys who only had it for a year or two to be certain it's not bacterial.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:53 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Chavalote wrote:
The problem is that on a lot of us antibiotic don't work. I have done a lot of cultures with antibiogram, then took the "right" antibiotic and nothing happened. They must start to think in other approachs to eliminate the bacterias. Phages sound fine but they are too far for most of us now.

The main problem is not indentifying the bacteria which is causing this, it's to eliminate it. If that can't be done the diagnostic is absurd, like it was in my case.


Did they culture your urine and semen? Culture tests arent as accurate as the NGS test because a lot of times the disease causing bacteria dont grow on cultures, that may or may not be why the antibiotics you took didnt help. Also, I think antibiotics don't work because people didn't correctly identify the bacteria and when they identify it and found the right antibiotic, it still has a good chance of not working because its difficult for the antibiotics to reach the prostate in substantial amounts. Prostate massage can help the antibiotics reach the prostate better from what i read.

True the ultimate goal is to get rid of the infection but how can you get rid of something if you can't accurately identify it and find out what is effective at killing it? Even with phages, you need to correctly identify the bacteria, grow it on a dish, and then you can find the proper phage to kill it. Without identifying the bacteria correctly youre just taking shots in the dark


Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:05 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
A question about this website. Maybe I’m missing something but this appears to be a website for physicians to use. So unless you’re a physician you couldn’t use it or order from it. Assuming that’s true you would need to find a Doctor willing to use it, and at least in the USA the majority of Drs work for health care organizations or groups. They can’t go outside the group to do anything not approved or affiliated with the group. Doctors practicing alone are rare in the USA. So has anyone been able to order a kit because I do not see anything available to people unless they are licensed physicians.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:55 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Madcap wrote:
A question about this website. Maybe I’m missing something but this appears to be a website for physicians to use. So unless you’re a physician you couldn’t use it or order from it. Assuming that’s true you would need to find a Doctor willing to use it, and at least in the USA the majority of Drs work for health care organizations or groups. They can’t go outside the group to do anything not approved or affiliated with the group. Doctors practicing alone are rare in the USA. So has anyone been able to order a kit because I do not see anything available to people unless they are licensed physicians.


From what I heard, I think you have go to an infectious disease doctor and give that doctor a sample and then have him or her send that sample out to the Microgen lab for testing. I don't know if you can get a urologist to do it.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:27 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
WS1234 wrote:
Or it could be the bacteria they are finding have nothing to do with your problem


Nope, I don't even think what you said about there being a diverse group of bacteria residing in the prostate to be true. Can you give me a link to that study where they say that? Here is a direct quote from the microgen FAQ section that talks about this.

"Is there a cut off of which species to treat?
Answer: No. Multiple species identified could be interpreted as a biofilm. In the case of biofilm infections the microorganisms are a “collaborative community” and are highly synergistic. When the sample is taken from a site other than the mouth, sinus cavity, gut, or areas in the body where we have an established microbiome, there are no commensal bacteria (Good Bacteria). Commensals need specific host related mechanisms and those host dependent processes are not possible in wounds, RTI, UTI, or joint infections.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:01 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Madcap wrote:
A question about this website. Maybe I’m missing something but this appears to be a website for physicians to use. So unless you’re a physician you couldn’t use it or order from it. Assuming that’s true you would need to find a Doctor willing to use it, and at least in the USA the majority of Drs work for health care organizations or groups. They can’t go outside the group to do anything not approved or affiliated with the group. Doctors practicing alone are rare in the USA. So has anyone been able to order a kit because I do not see anything available to people unless they are licensed physicians.


Actually, you could have your urologist or any MD call the microgen lab set up an account and send your sample in. It doesn't have to be an infectious disease doc


Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:08 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... d/25596358

Image

http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... .co/cio46S


Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:59 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
eadk wrote:
Madcap wrote:
A question about this website. Maybe I’m missing something but this appears to be a website for physicians to use. So unless you’re a physician you couldn’t use it or order from it. Assuming that’s true you would need to find a Doctor willing to use it, and at least in the USA the majority of Drs work for health care organizations or groups. They can’t go outside the group to do anything not approved or affiliated with the group. Doctors practicing alone are rare in the USA. So has anyone been able to order a kit because I do not see anything available to people unless they are licensed physicians.


Actually, you could have your urologist or any MD call the microgen lab set up an account and send your sample in. It doesn't have to be an infectious disease doc


That’s true, but you would have to find an independent physician willing to do it. I can tell you physicians belonging to a health care group follow procedures based on who the group does business with. They cannot set up accounts without it being a group approved facility. You could bypass that problem if you can find someone who works alone.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:45 am
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
WS1234 wrote:
http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?link=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25596358

Image

http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... .co/cio46S


WS1234 wrote:
http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?link=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25596358

Image

http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... .co/cio46S


That study is saying that they found differences between the microbiome of chronic prostatitis patients and control group when using first void (VB1) urine samples, the difference being that CP patients have a higher amount of the bacteria called Burkholderia cenocepacia. Whether or not this indicates that B. Cenocepacia is pathogenic, I don't know, but there is a major difference in microbiome when comparing first void urine. I'm not sure if this study even used the Next Gen sequencing technology as Microgen so there's that. Yes, the study did say that there were no major differences when using midstream urine and post prostatic massage urine but the study you showed me is only limited to comparing urine. It didn't even compare semen which is another type of sample that Microgen uses to detect bacteria. Read this study on the microbiome in semen for CP patients vs healthy patients (this study uses Next Gen). http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... d/28147438

That study says that patients with chronic prostatitis has a higher diversity of bacteria in their semen vs men without prostatitis, which makes a lot of sense. Biofilms are species of bacteria that stick together in a community. One or two bacteria might not cause problems but when it's more than one species of bacteria in a biofilm working together that's when it starts causing problems.

So I think based on what I just read, it's better to send both urine and semen samples to Microgen to get an accurate diagnosis.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:18 am
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Madcap wrote:
eadk wrote:
Madcap wrote:
A question about this website. Maybe I’m missing something but this appears to be a website for physicians to use. So unless you’re a physician you couldn’t use it or order from it. Assuming that’s true you would need to find a Doctor willing to use it, and at least in the USA the majority of Drs work for health care organizations or groups. They can’t go outside the group to do anything not approved or affiliated with the group. Doctors practicing alone are rare in the USA. So has anyone been able to order a kit because I do not see anything available to people unless they are licensed physicians.


Actually, you could have your urologist or any MD call the microgen lab set up an account and send your sample in. It doesn't have to be an infectious disease doc


That’s true, but you would have to find an independent physician willing to do it. I can tell you physicians belonging to a health care group follow procedures based on who the group does business with. They cannot set up accounts without it being a group approved facility. You could bypass that problem if you can find someone who works alone.


That sucks, guess we have to find a doc that is independent


Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:09 am
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Another alternative would be to contact this clinic asking for names of physicians in or around the area you live who work with them or use their services. Then assuming you could get into see one the process would be fairly simple.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Eadk,

I suspect that my chronic prostatitis is caused by an stubborn enterococcus faecalis strain. They have found it in my semen, urine and pre-seminal fluid several times. The last two times I did cultures they came "negative" but judging by my symptoms I suspect that the bacterias are still there. And also I have read a lot of cases of chronic prostatitis caused by enterococcus faecalis and how stubborn it can be. I suspect also that it's a resistant version of enterococcus faecalis caused by people's abuse of antibiotics which I caught somewhere. I'm quite sure that if I repeat the culture it will appear again but I don't do cultures because it's a nonsense, antibiotics don't work and only leave my body worse (I still suffer mild ear ringing and tremblings which I suspect were triggered by antibiotics), and that's the only thing they do, prescribing antibiotics.

These days I'm having even itchy feelings in my penis and around it that comes from inside. That's also something that looks like an infection. Those itchy feelings usually come when a wound is healing. I would like to think that eating shii-take is working and this is slowly recovering but maybe it's only a temporary thing. But the point here is that itchy feelings suggest an infection, not so strong to hurt too much, but enough to weaken my libido and orgasms. To me that theory makes sense.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:06 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
I'm planning to see a prostatitis specialist soon and I think he's an independent doctor, I'll see if i can ask him to set up an account and send my samples to microgen.

Hey Chavalote,

The bacteria showing up and then not showing up on your culture says a lot about the unreliability of traditional culture tests. It's a hit or miss. I'm willing to bet that you probably have more bacteria other than the Enterococcus faecalis since your prostatitis is chronic. The culture test that you took is different from the NGS test. The culture test that you took takes your sample, and see if they can grow the bacteria on a dish. If it grows then you can identify the bacteria but like i said a lot of the times not all of the bacteria grows on the dish so it's unreliable. The NGS test is different from a traditional culture test because from my understanding of it, bacteria leave behind dna kind of like how there's dna left behind at a crime scene. There's no need to grow the bacteria on a dish. The NGS test this DNA and can tell you all of the bacteria that is present within a given sample and the ones that are the most likely to be causing the problems. The antibiotics that you took was suppose to target your Enterococcus Faecalis because that's what they found in your cultures right? But what if not all of the bacteria that you have in your prostate grew in the culture? That means the antibiotic you took could just be targeting the Enterococcus but not the others. I'm not saying this is definitely the case but it is a possibility. Having said that, since you live in SPain i'm not sure if doctors outside the U.S. can use Microgen's services.

Have you tried probiotics after taking the antibiotics? I think probiotics would help restore your gut flora. But I think that sometimes certain probiotics won't contain the good bacteria that your gut is missing. I heard of that you could even test your gut biome and then find what good bacteria your gut is missing and take the appropiate probiotics for it. I think there was a website that had that service but i forgot what was the name of it. I think it's worth looking into if you taken a lot of antibiotics and are suffering from side effects.

It's crazy how your symptoms are so much similar to mine. I have itchiness in the prostate area too and I can feel it on my head (the other head). I'm taking commercial/standard phages right now that i'm not sure my bacteria responds to (didn't do sensitivity testing on it), and I notice the itchiness increases when taking phages. Maybe itchiness is a sign that it's working?? I'm not too sure. But I agree that itchiness is a sign of infection. Shiitake, that's a japanese mushroom right? I think I read somewhere that shiitake has antibacterial effects, so maybe that's why it seems like it's helping. Did you notice the itchy feeling more after you took the shiitake? Hm you could maybe try combining it with other natural antibacterials (garlic, manuka honey, maple syrup,) to see if it works better when combined.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:09 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
I'm skeptical. There are a number of peer reviewed studies out there that found that men with chronic prostatitis actually have *fewer* strains of bacteria in their prostate than do men who are asymptomatic. My urologist was a co-author of one such study. We talked at length about it during my last visit. My problem with the chronic bacterial theory, and believe me I was 100% sure I had CBP, is that the penis goes some dirty places on a very regular basis. There's all sorts of bacteria down there. Uncircumcised ? Anal sex? Vaginal sex? All places that have a ton of bacteria. Heck my penis multiple times over the years has even dipped into toilet water on a shallow toilet where I was taking a poop. No problems literally dipping my meatus into poo-water. My uro's opinion is that the prostate is basically the equivalent of an oil filter for the male urinary tract in that it sops up bacteria that enter the urethra before they get to the bladder and reproductive organs. This makes sense to me.

I've had all kinds of symptoms that I convinced myself were bacterial - burning, itching, irritation, discharge. Abxs never made them go away though. Yet they used to vary wildly from day to day. Some days I would have an inflamed and itchy meatus yet two days later it would look normal. Internal PT made a huge difference. I don't buy that a genuine infection would be so variable day to day. Not to mention the ridiculously inconsistent bacterial cultures. Those differ from lab to lab or day to day.

And for the past several weeks I have been on a somewhat modified regimen from my uro and...don't shout it from the rooftops just yet, I feel almost cured. I literally had 4 pain free days last week. That hasn't happened in the past three years. Nothing to do with abxs either. I'm nervous to make a post on it just yet for fear that it's a chimera, but so far so good. I'll give it a month before I declare victory.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:10 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
The problem with those tests and therapies is that they are too far to be common. So the only way I have now is testing things by myself, like supplements or diet changes.

The interesting thing about the shiitake is that I saw it in the supermarket and I bought it because I like. I didn't know anything about its medicinal properties. But I noticed changes in my semen and libido, not to celebrate it but noticeable, and when I searched about them I found that they may help the immune system and also it's an adaptogen like reishi. I'll be eating it several months to see what happens.

I have been thinking about other supplements but I have to order them online because I can't found them here and I don't have paypal or similar. I'm quite depressed and I'm procrastrinating it.

I have thought that could be that there is a "main" pathogen hidden inside my prostate or seminal vesicles but here I can't do more accurate tests with my insurance. And I doubt that an antibiotic would do anything in case of finding something different because it seems that the infection is hard to reach by common antibiotics in the prostate.

A took probiotics years ago. I don't think those problems are caused by the gut bacterial flora, I suspect that something got unbalanced in my body and I don't know if time will restore it. But now I'm afraid of antibiotics. We need a paradigm change, indeed.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:20 pm
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
prostate454 wrote:
I'm skeptical. There are a number of peer reviewed studies out there that found that men with chronic prostatitis actually have *fewer* strains of bacteria in their prostate than do men who are asymptomatic. My urologist was a co-author of one such study. We talked at length about it during my last visit. My problem with the chronic bacterial theory, and believe me I was 100% sure I had CBP, is that the penis goes some dirty places on a very regular basis. There's all sorts of bacteria down there. Uncircumcised ? Anal sex? Vaginal sex? All places that have a ton of bacteria. Heck my penis multiple times over the years has even dipped into toilet water on a shallow toilet where I was taking a poop. No problems literally dipping my meatus into poo-water. My uro's opinion is that the prostate is basically the equivalent of an oil filter for the male urinary tract in that it sops up bacteria that enter the urethra before they get to the bladder and reproductive organs. This makes sense to me.

I've had all kinds of symptoms that I convinced myself were bacterial - burning, itching, irritation, discharge. Abxs never made them go away though. Yet they used to vary wildly from day to day. Some days I would have an inflamed and itchy meatus yet two days later it would look normal. Internal PT made a huge difference. I don't buy that a genuine infection would be so variable day to day. Not to mention the ridiculously inconsistent bacterial cultures. Those differ from lab to lab or day to day.

And for the past several weeks I have been on a somewhat modified regimen from my uro and...don't shout it from the rooftops just yet, I feel almost cured. I literally had 4 pain free days last week. That hasn't happened in the past three years. Nothing to do with abxs either. I'm nervous to make a post on it just yet for fear that it's a chimera, but so far so good. I'll give it a month before I declare victory.


Can you show me those peer review studies? Also, what kind of test was used to identify the bacteria in those studies? Was it NGS? What kind of samples did they use? Urine? Semen? or both? Because the study that I posted in my earlier post says the opposite. This one right here http://prostatitis.org/redirect.php?lin ... d/28147438 and they used NGS in that study.

To me, the chronic bacterial theory makes complete sense. Yes, bacteria can enter your body in many of the ways that you explained but why doesn't everyone get prostatitis? Well I think it's because it depends on the types of bacteria that enters your body and if your immune system was able to kill it before it causes prostatitis. I think one or two bacteria usually don't cause any problems except maybe acute infections, but it's when many strains of bad bacteria that enters the prostate and joins together to make biofilms is when the problem starts.

Antibiotics don't usually work because you have to first identify the strains of bacteria that are causing you the problem and then find an appropiate antibiotic to kill all of them. I know I said this already but traditional culture tests are unreliable, not all of the bacteria grow on the dishes which is why NGS can help give a more accurate diagnosis. And the other problem with antibiotics is that it's very difficult for substantial amounts to reach the prostate.

I've done phage therapy before but I went to the wrong place that I found out scammed me and they gave me phages that my bacteria kind of responded to but wasn't really effective. Before I took phages, I had always noticed that my pelvic floor muscles were tight. I would always tighten them whenever I'm stressed out or whenever my prostate is inflamed or whenever I eat certain foods. I would always clench my pelvic floor muscles, it wasn't involuntary, it was more like I felt the urge to clench it and I HAD to clench it. I thought my problem was bacterial AND muscular, until I started taking the standard phages. While I was taking the phages and even after I took the phages, my main symptoms didn't improve much because the phage center gave me phages that didn't target all of my bacteria, but I did notice one major improvement after taking it. My pelvic muscles were no longer tight and I no longer felt the need to clench my pelvic muscles and it doesn't feel like I have a muscular problem anymore. The muscular problem just completely went away after I was done with the phages. This tells me that the bacteria is capable of causing muscular problems around the prostate, I don't know how exactly but that is my theory based on my experience with taking phages. If I had to take a wild guess, I think it might be the toxins that the bacteria releases that could be affecting the surrounding pelvic floor muscles. Now i'm not saying that ALL cases are bacterial, I do believe there are cases that are truly non bacterial but what I'm saying here is that it's better to assume it's bacterial and be wrong than to assume it's not bacterial and be wrong.

Unlike you, I think the variation of symptoms indicates a genuine infection. Bacterial activity is dynamic especially in biofilm communities. The activity of the bacteria in the prostate can be affected by stress and the foods you eat. Certain foods are antimicrobials so they affect the bacteria in the prostate which can cause a fluctuation in symptoms. One example is that when I didn't know my problem was bacterial, I was eating Popeyes chicken and I would always put honey on my fried chicken because it taste good. I would always put a lot of honey. After I ate it, later on I noticed my symptoms improved. I had no clue why my symptoms improved all of a sudden. Looking back now, I found out that honey has antibacterial effects and can break down biofilms of certain bacteria. Not only that, but your immune system can attack the bacteria in your prostate if it is able to detect it, which can also cause a change in symptoms.

I'm glad that you're seeing progress in your condition and who knows your condition is probably non-bacterial but my point is that people should be SURE it's not bacterial before trying other things. If it is bacterial you shouldn't let the infection get worse by not treating it as non-bacterial.


Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:55 am
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Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Chavalote wrote:
The problem with those tests and therapies is that they are too far to be common. So the only way I have now is testing things by myself, like supplements or diet changes.

The interesting thing about the shiitake is that I saw it in the supermarket and I bought it because I like. I didn't know anything about its medicinal properties. But I noticed changes in my semen and libido, not to celebrate it but noticeable, and when I searched about them I found that they may help the immune system and also it's an adaptogen like reishi. I'll be eating it several months to see what happens.

I have been thinking about other supplements but I have to order them online because I can't found them here and I don't have paypal or similar. I'm quite depressed and I'm procrastrinating it.

I have thought that could be that there is a "main" pathogen hidden inside my prostate or seminal vesicles but here I can't do more accurate tests with my insurance. And I doubt that an antibiotic would do anything in case of finding something different because it seems that the infection is hard to reach by common antibiotics in the prostate.

A took probiotics years ago. I don't think those problems are caused by the gut bacterial flora, I suspect that something got unbalanced in my body and I don't know if time will restore it. But now I'm afraid of antibiotics. We need a paradigm change, indeed.


Chavalote, if you are going to try supplements and haven’t tried tumeric I’ve found it helps with inflammation. Although if you’re going to try it check brands carefully. It isn’t easily absorbed so make sure the brand you try is formulated correctly.


Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:57 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:11 pm
Posts: 545
Post Re: Next Gen Sequencing to identify all bacteria in prostate
Eadk wrote:
This tells me that the bacteria is capable of causing muscular problems around the prostate (...).

That's also what I think. I talked to the pelvic floor phisiotherapist about that because my symptoms (low libido, burning, weak orgasms...) didn't improve after all the therapy even if my muscles were clearly less tight. She has no idea about that (I mean, if a bacterial infection can cause muscle tightness) but to me it's clear.

I think that the problem is muscular when there is a strong pain but with symptoms like mine I think that it's clearly a chronic infection that the body gets used to but can't get rid easily of it.

I feel that common medicine practicioners tend to overestimate the antibiotics. Antibiotics worked well decades ago but bad practices (like using them on farm animals or overuse them for flu) have brought humanity to a point in which there are "superbacterias" very difficult to kill with them. The cicle of "resistant bacteria --> new antibiotic" is clearly destructive that's why I said that we need a paradigm shift. Bacterias are not our enemies. They turn pathogens when they are under "attack" or out of their place. They should have thought why they turned against us and stop the cause instead of declaring war against them. Antibiotics should have been used only in extreme cases and not like the wild card for all.

Declaring war against nature is absurd, science should be about understanding nature and learning to correct mistakes that make it sick, not to fight it because we are nature and fighting nature we are fighting against ourselves. That's why antibiotics are so harmful against our bodies. But too many ideological stuff and monetary interests on this to change. I'm quite pessimistic about this. That's why I'm on my own for now.

I'm sure that without the last decades antibiotics abuse (which I didn't do) I wouldn't be infected with this for that long. That says a lot to me about this system and its science. It's very hard to me to trust it.

Madcap, I eat a lot of tumeric and ginger. I want to try the allicin and quercetin that Eadk mentioned in my thread but they are difficult to get here. I guess I must order them online.


Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:10 am
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