My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgasms
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Author:  skistar [ Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

Hi Chav
I read your original story.
You said you got heart broken by a girl etc
I think THAT is your ”prostatitis”. That was your trigger and now you’re stuck with bewilderment (obsession, what if? Will I ever get better? Etc etc) and FEAR (oh my god, here the pain comes again)
Most mindbody syndromes seems to come out of unresolved emotions.

BUT, it can happen to anyone, without a given cause. It is not important why. You now have to get over the obsession and ultimately accept it’s all in your head (although your symptoms are real. Mindbody symptoms are real and can create real physical pain and what else, also inflammation in muscles) But it is originated in your brain! Many says that ”my problem is muscular” etc, but that is wrong in my opinion. The problem is not in the muscles or entrapped nerves. IT IS IN THE HEAD! If you can’t fix your head (what you believe), then you will be stuck in pain and low libido or whatever symptom you got.
Mindbody syndrome can happen to anyone. You don’t need to have had a bad childhood etc. when it strikes, for whatever reason or no reason, then it is the fear of the symptoms that drives it. and any doubt makes the progress slow. You have to find out yourself what makes your brain tick.

Listen to Claire Weekes or Dr Schubiner or dr Sarno. Do yourself a favor and visit forum and success stories. There is a good TMS recovery program created by Alan Gordon. Practice outcome independence. Get over your FEAR!!! It’s that simple (but yet that hard) I’m still struggling with my Fears, but I will get there!

With that said, not everything can be explained by mindbody (aka TMS) BUT, reading about your story, Chav, for me, you have a pretty strong mindbody case. I would bet my *** upon that

Take care, wishing you the best!

ADMIN NOTE: I've removed several 'bad words' from your post. We don't allow that here. PERIOD. I don't care what the argument anyone presents, the original ground rules of the board stated no bad language. You also keep making references to another forum and I have removed them each time. I can not allow links or references to another forum. Please refrain from doing this.
Thank you.

Author:  Chavalote [ Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

I don't know if you have read my presentation because I said clearly that my problem is not chronic pain. It's low libido, weak orgasms, burning ejaculations, etc.

I think that emotional wounds can have an influence on health problems, but I don't think that pure emotions can, by themselves, provoke real physical problems. I think that that kind of ideas arose from the inability of modern medicine to properly investigate and understand the real causes, and from scammers who benefit from that situation making the desperate people feel somehow that they have responsibility for their condition, and then provide a false feeling of control. Something like "if I change my emotions I can cure this".

I can't see how a girl breaking your heart can provoke years and years of weak orgasms, itchy/burning ejaculations, and symptoms that clearly are typical of infections (and why more noticeable in the left side?). Maybe that can provoke a temporal lack of interest in sex and difficulties having erections, but not years and years of the symptoms that I described in my presentation. And don't forget the bacterias that appeared in my semen/urine analysis.

I'm sure that if I could cure this chronic infection my sexual functions would return to normality. I know it because I know my body and I feel when it's inflamed, I feel when the orgasms get better because somehow there are days that the affected zone is less inflamed.

I'm getting really tired of this kind of "blame the victim" way of thinking. I would like from now on, people who want to make my emotions and mind responsible for this condition to please back off.

Author:  AyaGuy2012 [ Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

What is with people these days? Why do some people find it so difficult to believe that microbes can infect the prostate and cause issues? I know for a hardcore fact mine is caused by an infection, and i think a lot of people's is caused by an infection, prostate infections are very very very difficult to clear up, i should know lol. It's nowhere near as easy as taking an anti-biotic or anti-fungal for a bit and you're cured, unfortunately, infections of the prostate can be quite stubborn, apparently. All these ridiculous theories about why Chav or anyone else is going through this crap, imo it's definitely not the case, it's definitely some sort of infection, not psychological, not muscle tension, or anything like that. At least for me, my prostate is inflamed and infected and i get a uti pretty much everytime i ejaculate, with all the symptoms i have, i know for a fact it's an infection. Symptoms may be different for some people, or different due to the specific microbe(s), idk, but at least for me, i know what's going on and thank god i'm on my way to getting over it, it's just gonna take time, and time, and time lol, but i'm gonna get there i'm pretty sure, so long as i keep doing what i'm doing.

Also, i've found that i think it's best for me to ejaculate every like 4 days, like ejaculate and then 3 days later ejaculate again, so 2 days in between ejaculation. Ejaculating everyday doesn't seem to help much, and waiting longer i don't think helps much. It can be frustrating trying to figure this stuff out but things are definitely slowly but surely getting clearer for me at least.

Author:  Chavalote [ Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

I have tried one week of abstinence from ejaculation a few times and sometimes the libido and orgasm get better, sometimes they are like crap. Sometimes after 3 or 4 days they improve, sometimes not at all. But ejaculating a lot seems bad. I recognize that sometimes I have felt so frustrated with this that I have masturbated several times in a day, hoping the next time I'll feel satisfied. You know, this is awful. It's like eating and never feeling satiated. No pleasure, burning feeling and after that no relax, just feeling tired and sore.

I read somewhere that seminal fluid has antibacterial properties so maybe storing it and never getting "empty" is good. But after a week I can't usually notice anything special. You would hope to be with the libido very high when you have been a week without ejaculating. I don't know. Maybe there are also another factors which influence (heck, if I had did that when I was a teenager and healthy, after 7 days I would have been always with an erection, that is what you should expect in normal conditions, and a super orgasm when releasing that tension).

This feeling clearly seems to be caused by an infection. That burning, that exact located point, that sense of blockage there... All seems to indicate an infection. Sometimes I dream of a cleaned prostate working like before, no painful erections, no blockage, etc... But how can I clean this? That is the big question.

Author:  WS1234 [ Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

Whats your plan of action, Chav? You seem so sure its an infection, yet treating it as an infection hasn't yielded any positive results for you as far as I can tell. I was once in the same boat, thinking it was an infection. Despite testing negative for anything in urine, semen and EPS, I bombarded my system with a wide array of antibiotics and antifungals over the course of a year, combined with prostate massage twice a week and didn't get any improvement. It was at that point I was able to let go of the theory that there was some mystery bug hiding in my prostate. There is plenty of research out there that shows that the bacterial make up of a person's prostate with CPPS is the same as a healthy person with no symptoms. The prostate is easy to blame in the absence of another explanation, but none of us really know whats actually going on inside of our bodies. I don't have any great advice for you, but chasing an infection seems to be a path that rarely provides results. I understand why you feel let down by the medical system, but the alternative is to just sit and be angry. A more holistic, well rounded (diet, exercise, working on your mind ect) approach is probably a more positive way to go.

Author:  AyaGuy2012 [ Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

"but chasing an infection seems to be a path that rarely provides results."

For some people maybe, i'm sure not everyone has an infection of the prostate, and i can see where tension in the bladder muscles could cause some issues, but at least for me personally, it is an infection of the prostate, and i am seeing results, not only in the clearing up of some of the symptoms but also has less of a difficult time with getting urination started and the flow and sometimes volume of the urine output. It's very easy to tell ime if the prostate is inflamed, and it does get inflamed a bit after ejaculation i've noticed but after a day or two the inflammation seems to decrease a bit.

Imo/ime, if you have prostatitis, or inflammation of the prostate, it's pretty obvious. Even before i went to the doc and got the diagnosis of prostatitis, back when it all first started happening, it wasn't difficult at all to put two and two together and realize that it felt/seemed like my prostate, certainly didn't need a doc to tell me that although it did reassure me that that was what was going on. For me the most obvious sign of my infection is the chronic uti's i get after each ejaculation, makes my bladder and urethra feel all weird and uncomfortable, but when i'm taking the right treatment those symptoms aren't nearly as noticeable and the Palmitoylethanolamine i take really seems to help for bladder discomfort/inflammation.

The reason, at least imo, that anti-biotics or anti-fungals have a hard time treating prostatitis is because it seems like just taking one anti-biotic or one anti-fungal doesn't completely halt the process of microbial replication, it helps, but not completely, but combining the right things together seems to improve the chances of completely halting it's replication, and therefore when ejaculating some microbes are expelled and the others still in the prostate aren't able to replicate and grow back. I've also noticed that after ejaculation, and after waiting a certain number of days, i start feeling a bit of a kind of pain in the prostate, i associate this pain with good pain, a sign things are getting better, as i see other symptoms improving around the time of this pain.

I can really only describe this stuff from my own experience, others results may vary, but i'm definitely on the right track with what i've got going on, for me, it will probably still take a good bit more time, but i'm optimistic, sometimes i may get set back a little bit but things are definitely getting better.

Author:  Chavalote [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

I can't understand some people insistence in someway making you feel guilty or directly humiliate you with comments like "just sit and be angry".

The people who have been seriously following this thread know that I'm constantly trying things, diet changes, exercise, abstinence from ejaculation, etc. I also said in this thread that I already have tried the physiotherapy and it didn't work.

Also, the fact that antibiotics don't work in many cases doesn't prove that it is not an infection. Antibiotics were the "panacea" when they discovered them but, like I said in another post, it proved to be a wrong approach since it provoked more problems in the long term. In fact, I believe that most of the chronic prostatitis cases don't get cured by antibiotics because the bacterias have got resistant to them. Antibiotics are a way of attacking nature without understanding it. Also, the prostate is well known to be a place where antibiotics are difficult to enter in proper amounts.

The infection symptoms that Ayaguy describes are quite similar to mine. And I also don't need a doctor to know that it is an infection. I know my body and everyone denying what I feel is doing some kind of "gaslighting" psychological abuse, and that sadly includes a lot of "specialists" that I have met with inflated egos. Like I said to an arrogant urologist who denied my problem saying "here the specialist is me": "maybe you are the specialist in your field but I'm the specialist in my body". That were before I knew that I had a prostatitis. He simply listened to my symptoms and he denied them. I think that more people need to stop leaving their judgement to the "specialists" and trust more in their own ability to feel their own bodies. And what my body symptoms suggest me is an infection. If your body symptoms suggest some of you a muscular problem or an stress problem then go that road.

What we need is another approach to this. We need the knowledge an understanding of why these infections occur in the first place, why they last so long, how can we clean them, etc. "Gaslighting" people complaining about it won't guide us to anywhere.

I would reverse the reasoning and say: sitting and blamming yourself, your "negative thoughts", your muscle tension, stress or whatever won't cure this. And of course, if you do have an actual infection, denying it won't cure it.

Like I said, my symptoms diminish some days. There must be something that causes that. That indicates me that this is curable. What I need is to find that exact cause and stick to it.

Author:  presto423 [ Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

It definitely at least borders on gaslighting, and the fact they continue to try with forceful abandon to persuade you of their theories and notions, which are more directly associated with how they purportedly view their own situation(s), reveals a critical lack of consideration and knowledge. However, sometimes this presents resistance that clarifies for you your own perspectives and in responding how you have it solidifies some of what's correct and some of what's incorrect. Though that could merely be conjecture on my part. I think this idea of antibiotics being made into a "panacea", that is, a cure-all or the only cure, is rampant in the health industry. I also think it is part of what perpetuates the insurance industry's stranglehold on prices, fees, and limitations of medicines at the patient level. Even a doctor or nurse would easily tell you they cannot order more than a certain amount, or prescribe more or less than a certain amount of a drug, antibiotic, medicine, etc. due to legal and insurance costs / reasons...often in the case that it's declared essential but is producing side effects or simply when assessing the risk proves even mildly associated with a potential problem. So now people are doling out advice and becoming self-certified health gurus, kind of similar to the political climate in certain countries (ala United States, Britain, China, Australia, Canada, etc). When people show they're too enveloped in the turmoil and crises of the issues in society, the state (gov't and entities asserting or ready and willing to assert dominance and power, and in some cases capacity) often takes over to try to save or ameliorate things. This is what happened in the United States with Obamacare, in the housing industry, the financial sector, automotive industry, and the military too. One of the primary values I hold is to not bleed or embrace the same propaganda, despite others considering me abnormal / enemy / unacceptable / etc. This notion of fear creating physical conditions is not a new concept, nor is it entirely untrue in certain cases. But it's predisposed to ignoring real possibilities and more probable causes, which it's likely are not solvable by simply curing or stopping the fear. I think this person has made their point enough in this thread and it would be smart to not repeat the dialogue.

Author:  Chavalote [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

They say that we live in the era of "science" and before that, all was "obscurantism", but I don't see that. In fact, I think that we live in the era of the market dictatorship, which is pretty obscure.

I have discussed a lot on YouTube and other social networks with that kind of atheistic fanatics praising "science" (which really is scientism, materialism and the cult to the authorities) and specially their presumptions make me angry because I have seen by myself that todays "science" is corrupt. Even the guy who attended to me in the laboratory when I made the semen and urine analysis, told me that it is. He said that "if it is not profitable the doctors ignore you" (with a low voice like if it was dangerous to get listened by somebody).

Criticizing today's "science" is not irrational, obscure or religious (in fact, I'm not religious). That's a false dichotomy to make people conform, but few people seem to be realizing that. I have been reading real science, books, some of them of the XIX Century, that already were exposing Darwin theories (in which the whole antibiotics thing is based) with facts and very good logical arguments. But all of those books are never mentioned in the academic circles. Evolutionary theories are the perfect excuse to take nature as a market. If everything is constantly changing (like the industry and the trends of the market) then it's ok to change them capriciously. That is why todays "science" has become a tool to attempt to dominate nature, and not understanding it.

It's kind of funny how the antibiotics industry resembles the computer industry. With the bacteria "getting resistant" (which they explain by evolutionary nonsense, but in fact are responses to ambiental agression) they can keep making new antibiotics like if you have to "update" your "software" constantly. I wonder why indigenous people didn't have the infectious and vicious diseases that appeared in "civilized cultures". Any person interested in the truth, that is, in real science, should ask those questions instead of blaming nature for the infectious diseases.

Antibiotics also silenced nature (remember, domination and control, not knowledge). Any indigenous people knows that diseases are a result of destroying the balance of nature. Real science should seek and unserstand those unbalances, then stop them. But the Western modern scientists viewed nature as something random, dead, so they searched for a way to make it "shut up". But nature never shut ups when is attacked. That is why bacterias keep changing to defend themselves. But from the point of a business man this was fantastic. New bacteria changes, new antibiotic, more money, more control of the market.

All of these thoughts are based on a lot of readings and thinking. But almost all of the folks following "science" (that is, todays "scientific" mainstream propaganda) blindly will ridiculize this as "phantasies" or "subjective ideas". Dr. Fleming was a "hero" that "saved lives" and shut up. That is a cult kind of thinking, not scientific, ironically. They should first think what put those lives in danger.

We have an "science" which make us enemies with nature, which isolate us from it and make us dependant on the market, authorities... How can that "science" be objective (as they claim) and honest?

But you know, all of these thoughts are easily labelled as "conspiracy theories" by most of the people indoctrinated with the mainstream propaganda, most of them, people who have never read a book of real science, who their main "science knowledge" comes from propaganda channels like Discovery or BBC. And where is the critical thinking indispensable in a real scientific approach? It's gone. That is why "science" is today corrupt. It's and endless cicle.

And do they pretend to make me believe that todays "science" is enlightment? When I have seen by myself that is not? When I'm myself suffering the consequences of having a chronic health problem which would be easy to cure if they wanted to cure it and not simply profits? It's really offensive. Again, it's gaslighting. It's denying what you have seen and what you are suffering for an "all powerful god": "science".

That is why I said before, totally seriously, that I would rather trust a tribal medicine man with a deep knowledge of herbs to cure this. An science divided from nature is an science of delusion. Real science/knowledge/wisdom must be with nature, and not against it.

The people who are blaming the person with the health problem for "not relaxing", etc. Are contributing to that endless circle. It's like a middle ages religious person telling poor people to "be more stoical" instead of exposing and fighting the corrupt kings and aristocracy. That is why I think that we live in an obscure era, indeed. In fact, if you forget the techonology that surrounds us and focus in people's ignorance, suffering, injustices, wars, poverty, etc., it's easy to realize that.

If there is a good point of this condition, is that it has helped me to realize all of this and come out of the delusion that I was taught in the school. But we need more people to realize and to ask for a real science. We need to separate science from profit. We need to unite science with nature. We need an science of wisdom and knowledge, not of domination and control. If enough people realized this...

Author:  Kshel7 [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

I’m the abscence of any structural damage or clear sign of infection, most cases of CPPS are tension/neural related. This is evidenced-based medicine that clearly shows that catastrophizing, obsessing, and constantly thinking about symptoms will only reinforce your brain to continue to green light them. I’ve had a constellation of CPPS symptoms that have gone away. I’m now rock climbing, exercising, and sitting for long periods without pain. I can attribute this to a change in my brain and the way I perceive myself/world rather than some nerve block/procedure/antibiotic. If your brain perceives something to be dangerous, it will continue to send pain signals to that area. If anyone really wants any relief and wants to know more about how I got there, PM and I’ll be happy to share. Otherwise, you could continue to believe it’s some occult bacteria and run around in circles for eternity.

Author:  Chavalote [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

I think that you need to read this thread before. All what you are saying is answered already (several times, in fact).

You say: "I’m the abscence of any structural damage or clear sign of infection, most cases of CPPS are tension/neural related."

I do feel in my body clear signs of infection: burning ejaculation, burning urination, burning in the urethra, and so on. A nerve/muscle problem causes pain, not burning. Not the kind of burning I'm experiencing (only when the fluid passes my urethra).

It simply doesn't make sense that these symptoms which I'm experiencing are caused "by my brain". I know my body. I don't know what some "specialists" unable to cure this say to justify their ignorance and to blame the sufferers, but I know that in my case it's not my brain. I'm not a machine. My brain can't make me feel burning while ejaculating, no way. It's all nonsense and I'm getting tired of having to explain the same things over and over again.

Read my presentation, please. I said that I don't feel pain. Different symptoms from those you are blamming the "brain".

This is really starting to seem like magical thinking to me. If you want to blame "your brain" for "creating a problem which doesn't actually exists in your body" go ahead. Gaslight yourself if that makes you feel good, but not me. I trust in my own ability to recognize the signs of my body.

Please, read carefully what I've said in this thread before pushing your theories, at least.

Author:  Kshel7 [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

You're not really my audience, Chavalote. You seemed to have your reality set in stone. I'm speaking to the countless others who are feeling more hopeless and anxious after reading your circuitous posts. Frankly, your statements reek of intellectual laziness. All pain and sensation is ultimately judged, perceived, and processed in the brain. I'm not gas lighting you - these are facts (do some research).

Also, you highlight "I do feel in my body clear signs of infection." Well, I can't argue with you there. But "feeling" doesn't necessarily line up with actually having an infection.

I've read through quite a bit of your posts Chavalote, and it certainly did not inspire any hope for recovery. On the contrary, I truly believe your type of thought process delayed my recovery and is most likely the reason you still continue to experience symptoms. Research studies I have read are showing the brain and central nervous system play a significant role in chronic pain. This means that chronic pain is not solely a condition of the body, but rather a condition of the brain. And pain can include burning, numbness, and other sensations.

So, given this information and tools to help me rewire my perception, I was able to slowly unwind the neural pathways associated with pain and perpetuated via thought processes very similar to yours. The locus of control shifted from external (i.e., believing I had some "occult" bacteria, taking countless antibiotics, and being at the mercy of the medical system) to internal (i.e., focusing on processing emotions, managing anxiety and depression). Surprisingly - or not - pain neural pathways in the brain light up in the same areas as anxiety and depression. By learning to manage these, my mood increased and pain decreased. I found myself enjoying activities that previously would cause major flares - my brain no longer associated them with being a major threat. I wasn't in a low grade level of panic. My body was able to heal itself.

But hey, you can still believe that there is some occult bacteria somewhere in the prostate or seminal vesicles if you want. You can still be the victim and claim people are gaslighting you. Or, for a change, you can take back what your primitive part of the brain has hijacked from you - a sense of control and serenity. Enough to activate your parasympathetic and help you heal your own body.

It's worked for me and for many others.

Author:  Chavalote [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

You're not really my audience, Chavalote.

Then why write here, in my thread? If you want to tell that to other people comment in other threads. I already said before to please, back off with those "new age" nonsense and you ignored it and kept pushing it to say later that "I'm not your audience". What's the point?

And yes, you are gaslighting me, and I won't tolerate it anymore so this nonsense talk ends here to me.

ADMIN NOTE: This was originally Chavalote's thread dating back over four years ago. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with him, his thoughts and beliefs are his thoughts and beliefs. Over the course of the last ten years, there have been many posts that I didn't agree with, but I approved them anyway.

It is easy to start a new thread on your beliefs and thoughts. Please do so.
Thank you.

Author:  Fantom451 [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

Chavalote wrote:
ADMIN NOTE: This was originally Chavalote's thread dating back over four years ago. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with him, his thoughts and beliefs are his thoughts and beliefs. Over the course of the last ten years, there have been many posts that I didn't agree with, but I approved them anyway.

It is easy to start a new thread on your beliefs and thoughts. Please do so.
Thank you.

This is fostering a toxic environment, not only for Chav, but for anyone else suffering this condition who searches and comes here. 4 years of repeating the same lecture over and over, and SHUTTING DOWN anyone who tries to help is not doing anyone any good, and in fact is probably far worse than not even using this forum. Negative repetitive thoughts actually have been studied as something that causes physical and mental problems, and I have seen no improvement here.

Presumably, Chav is here for help. That's why we post threads, and I agree that it's nice to stay on topic. Nobody changed the topic, though, as everyone is providing responses to broad claims provided by Chav. I understand not wanting to debate repetitively in your thread, but so then stop re-posting extreme comments like this with zero studies, books, or referential success stories to back up the claim (one of many examples):
Chavalote wrote:
A muscle problem simply can't cause all of that. A muscle chronic tension can make you feel pain, but not stun your libido, weaken your sexual pleasure, and make your semen burn like nettles.

Followed by (something ironic): attacking the entire medical community for not being scientific.

I started reading this thread about four years ago because of the similarities of symptoms. I wanted to share my experience with others, and learn together about things that worked. Not to have to watch people be scolded for responding to generic negativity like the quote above. The forum generally provides a good means of sharing, but this thread is an outlier. I saw a physical therapist who said, "be careful on the forums, there are people who will have doomsday claims and they will never get better like that." I immediately thought of this thread.

Chav, I hope you find some way to break out of this cycle of mental battles as well as the symptoms you're having. Based on this Admin note and the pointlessness of this thread, I'm going to unfollow it and suggest the others who are getting caught in the debate do as well. Please keep sharing your positivity elsewhere on the forum and trying to help others with this condition. After all, that's why we are all here.

Author:  Chavalote [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

You obviously have not read the entire thread, have you? Because if you had read it you would know that it's not "4 years of repeating the same lecture over and over". And I see also some memory problems here, because some pages ago, you, along with others, recomended me doing pelvic floor phisiotherapy and I did. Even having no job and be depending of a poor wage that my father sends me every month, which barely allows me to eat, I managed to save some money to go to the physiotherapist a few months. That means that my thoughts on this thread has not been rigid along the course of it, as you seem to assert.

In fact, if you re-read the thread you will realize that I thought as a possibility the stress - muscle tension - chornic prostatitis theory. Would had I pay a money that in fact I can't afford to go to a pelvic floor physiotherapist if I had not considered that theory? I followed here the scientific method of testing a theory to see if it is correct. I didn't deny it without testing, did I?

But it failed. And I continued thinking and reading. I went back to the infection theory because it was more consistent with what I'm feeling.

So, I'm not pretending to "shut down" any opinion.

Now, it's interesting that you say this: "Negative repetitive thoughts actually have been studied as something that causes physical and mental problems, and I have seen no improvement here."

It's precisely you, the people pushing over and over again the stress/muscle tension theory and denying the possibility of a chronic infection, the ones who are insisting on "negative repetitive thoughts". I see a blatant projection here.

In fact, I write long posts with a lot of arguments and you seem not to be reading or taking them seriously, because you don't answer to them, rather you keep repeating the same things again and again like if I haven't said nothing at all. That is quite rude, to say the least.

I say to back off because all those things have been considered and rejected by me, so what's the point of insisting? This is no censorship, it's asking for a basic respect. You are gaslighting me, questioning my mental health, and do you expect that I go along with it?

I created my own thread to share information about my case. I understand that the medical community puts under the "chronic prostatitis" umbrella a lot of different health problems and I don't go to another people threads to push my theories over and over again because I understand that their cases maybe different to mine.

Also, it's interesting that you talk about "shutting down" others when once in a thread that you created, you told me in a very cutting and cold way that I had changed the topic to my case just because I wrote a comment about my symptoms. Basically you said that your thread was not about my case but about yours and kicked me out. I grasped the message and never disturbed you again in your thread. My commentary was not rude or self-centered, I simply talked about my case because I thought that our symptoms were similar, but it seems that you interpreted it as an intrusion. Seems that you have a double standard here.

And also you are doing an straw-man fallacy when you say this: (that I'm) "attacking the entire medical community for not being scientific."

First, you need to understand the difference between attacking and criticising. And also you must understand that criticising scientific paradigms, prejudices and dogmas and a whole community are different things. Ironically, the one attacking here is you. Your are trying to make my image bad to others. You don't show any study or proof of your claimings, either. Your only purpose here seems to be leaving me as a "negative", "mentally ill" person "against the medical comunity". You have not refuted any of the criticism I did about the current medical paradigms, etc. Do you see that? All of your comment is a very subtle, but visible personal attack. You talk about me and my thread only without providing any useful information.

I asked you in another post if you had provided any study which proves what you are claiming, you didn't answer. Yet, you acuse me of not providing any study again ("Negative repetitive thoughts actually have been studied as something that causes physical and mental problems, and I have seen no improvement here."). Further, I have said several times that my theories are just theories and not proven truths. So, what is so annoying about them? What is so "negative" about them?

I see clearly who is pushing their thoughts on who here. I also see little respect to me as a person, no intention of converse at all.

If you don't like me and my thoughts then it's fine. Talk to other people and in other threads. Why do you have to read a thread created by someone so "negative" and "repetitive" when you have an entire forum and a ton of threads?

I'm not being dogmatic. If you read the thread you can easily see how I have been switching theories constantly in an active and dynamic process of searching. Did you read that at first I thought that this was a hormones unbalance caused by antidepressants and anxiolytics? Then I realized that it was a prostatitis. How can you say that I have been repeating the same thing over and over again? Or you haven't read the first posts of this thread or you are being dishonest.

I have hope in testing yohimbe, I'm searching ways of getting it and I'm going to test it if I can. I'll post how it goes because I have high expectations on that. I don't force anyone to follow my thread. The ones who want to accompany me in this long process of searching are welcome. Even criticism is welcome. But what I'm not going to welcome is abusive comments, like gaslighting me, blamming me of things that are not my fault, ignoring my posts or twisting them (straw-man fallacy), or questioning my mental health.

I'm not interested in personal battles. That is what would make this thread toxic. So, please, if I ignore some comments from now on understand that it's because I want to avoid useless quarrels and not because I'm "shutting down people who disagree with me". Because disagreeing and being abusive/offensive are two different things. I welcome healthy debates from which all of us can benefit, of course. I want to learn about this condition to cure it. But some folks here are not doing exactly that.

One more thing to people who will consider participating in this thread. Please, read the first presentation posts before posting. That will save a lot of misunderstandings. There, I explained in detail my symptoms, my process of searching and so on.

And to the admin: I have been here 4 years and I have never insulted or mistreated anybody. But when I see abusive behaviour I need to defend myself. I have been acused to be closed-minded, repetitive and negative, also of "attacking" an entire community just because I'm critical about the modern Western science and medicine, even my mental health has been questioned. So I need to defend myself and make clear that it's not the case. I try to not take part in these kind of discussions as much as I can, and I will do my best to avoid them also from now on, but when someone makes a false claim about me I need to be clear and show that they are wrong. There is nothing that I hate more than lies.

Author:  Madcap [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

I don’t recall posting in this thread before. No reason other than I didn’t think I had anything worthwhile to contribute, but after reading only the last few posts I feel I can offer one thing. I have said the same on various threads since I’ve been a member so I’ll say it here. Not a single one of us knows what the other has.

We are part of a group that is misunderstood, a group much larger than what we see represented on this board. We can offer advice, but as far as knowing how to solve the problem we can’t do that. The reason is simple. We don’t know what the problem is. Our medical professionals we seek help from don’t know. Oh they have theories, but that’s all they are. They can provide reasons behind what they believe but none of it matters if it doesn’t help you. So we as a group need to understand this as well. We want to believe what we believe, we will focus on reading what reinforces how we think. That’s human nature, but trying to force that belief on someone else by diminishing their beliefs isn’t helpful.

The idea here is to share, offer support, friendship, whatever you can that might make someone feel better. What we don’t need to do is make someone’s day worse with negativity.

Author:  Chavalote [ Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

Yes, that is why I have never told anybody what their problem is. If you have read my posts you can see that I use a lot of times the expression "in my case". My theories are also about the symptoms that I'm experiencing. And nobody can know (even the "specialists") what I feel in my body better than me.

There are people in other threads talking about other symptoms such as a strong chronic pain. You won't see me going there and telling them "your problem is that you have an infection and you don't want to recognize it because you are... (this or that peyorative term)". That would be abusive and disrespectful. Talking in behalf of somebody is always abusive (and by the way, that is something that a lot of scientists feel entitled to do, for example, talking in behalf of animals or plants, depicting them as machines, but that is another story). I talk by myself and not in behalf of others.

In fact, I believe that there are cases of the so called CPPS that do exist and that they are caused by muscular/nervous problems. I haven't denied that. For example, the well known pudendal nerve entrapment that some people have. But my symptoms suggest me another causes.

It could be that my symptoms are not being caused by an infection. The possibility exists and I'm open to that. But for now, all seems to lead to an infection.

But we need to be careful about assuming that it's CPPS just because antibiotics didn't work on our cases. The last urologist who I visited, after giving me antibiotics and performing a painful cystoscopy said with disdain when I asked: "then, what is the cause?", "this seems to be another case of CPPS, perhaps we have been attacking poor bugs that are not the culprit". Does that sound trustful to you? Let's recapitulate:

1 - He makes me repeat the cultures (semen and urine) because the ones which I took there were "old" (several months had passed).

2 - I made the cultures. Enterococcus faecalis appeared again. I knew that repeating the cultures were stupid and that the same bacteria would appear again, but you know, he needed "scientific data" and not my word, which I understand to some point. I provided him the "scientific data" again. By the way, he said when he saw the results "yes, enterococcus faecalis is one of the most common bacterias causing prostatitis like E. Coli", like if he was kinda expecting it.

3 - He prescribes me antibiotics from the antibiogram list.

4 - They failed, he performed a cystoscopy because "it's in the protocol" after warning me that probably it wouldn't show any problems at all. And it didn't. It was all ok according to the cystoscopy.

5 - He abandon my case as "CPPS" and retracts about the infection theory. This raises some serious questions: Why did he prescribe me antibiotics without knowing if the bacterias were the cause? What was the point of the culture and the cystoscopy if all ended that way? And what about his initial assertion when he saw the culture results about enterococcus faecalis being a "common cause of prostatitis"? Where is the coherence?

I see clearly that in my case (and here I would say that I imagine that it's not the only one) he used the CPPS theory as an excuse, a kind of scrapyard to throw all the cases that he can't understand/cure.

I must say that this urologist, like others, was not friendly. He was cold and disdainful to me during all the process.

Bottomline: Like I said, I believe that CPPS is a real thing. I believe that some cases, specially those which symptoms are chronic pain, are caused by muscular/nervous problems without no infection at all. But we need to be careful. Sometimes the "specialists" use the CPPS as a wild card to abandon us, like it clearly was in my case.

Author:  presto423 [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

Using CPPS diagnosis to abandon a patient is something I think I have experienced, perhaps. It's also probable the urologist simply doesn't know how to treat it properly and efficiently, so it's more a type of caution than it is abandoning my specific case in a cold and calculating way. I was told by my PCP that it's all in my head, but the diagnosis was still placed in my health record, and he's also the one who authorized and referred me to the urologist.

The system is often limiting in its approaches, and not only to prostatitis / CPPS. I remember questioning why in the US there was, and still is, such a big push to overhaul the healthcare system. It didn't only involve insurance either, despite it looking like that was the main target for reform. It wasn't long after that when I started having chronic pain and other problems.

The theory that nature is never against humans is refutable in a number of ways and cases, but it doesn't amount to a need to conquer and control nature in all aspects either. Bacteria may not comprehend or willfully attack and cause problems, though it may be the case that some actually are intentionally hostile. However, I'm not going to voluntarily submit my life to an infection, whether it is intentional or not. If a gun came alive and was trying to shoot me, but it had not the intent nor the awareness of what it was capable of doing (killing me), then I wouldn't just try to outrun it all the time. I'd try to destroy it, to cause it to malfunction, and ensure it stays gone. That's part of the inherent problem with bacteria. How is it ensured that once they're gone, they remain gone?

Same with muscle tension / neural problems. I don't understand what to do yet, so I read and think, then attempt a potential solution here and there. Negative thinking is more likely to make my migraine headache worse than it is to completely cause it in the first place. I used to get migraine headaches semi-frequently, and after some testing, it was found I had a protein deficiency. Eating more protein source food resulted in less migraines, but not entirely stopping them. So, I tried doing some other things, and one was simply concentrating on relaxing and being less worried about things that weren't immediately a threat or danger, or even a stressor. I think it helped, but not saying it was the exact solution I required since I tried other things too.

Author:  Chavalote [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

My point was not that nature is never against humans, rather it was that most of the problems that are interpreted as "natural" are not (or at least are no proven to be). The Western modern science and medicine is based on a false dichotomy: "nature" vs "humans" (this definition of humans is also wrong, because it points at "civilized humans" only). But we are nature. There is no distinction between us and the rest of nature, and if "nature" is sick we get sick.

Also, I have begun to think that the term "nature" is very vague. Nature can mean a lot of things. What I mean by nature in this context is the deep interconnection between all the things, the net of life that surrounds us and which we are part of.

Most of the Western scientists usually take for granted that when something bad happens to humans it's because of "nature" without researching the real causes of the problem. That is what for example, happens with allergies. It never ends to astonish me when I go to the allergy clinic and I see calendars of pollen seasons, big photographies of scary dust mites and so on. One day, I got the throat checked by an otorhinolaryngologist. It was red and sore. I asked about the cause and he said in disdain: "it's nothing important, you know, pollution...". So, he takes for granted civilization poisons which clearly make us sick but they constantly put another living beings like our deadly enemies. I wonder why in the allergy clinics you can't see a single photograph of cars smoke, industrial pipes smoke, nuclear waste, burned plastics, etc... etc... Things that are by far more dangerous to our health. Honest otorhinolaryngology should fight human provocated pollution instead "nature".

I didn't have allergy before. I could be in any environment, with dust, pollen or whatever and I never had those problems. Allergies seem to be increasing among civilized people. Why they assume that the problem are other small living beings who have been always there without doing us any damage? Why they blame another creatures without taking into account that it could be that something has been altered?

They never question the system, the diseases it provocates. They always assume that "nature" is always the culprit. That seems very narcissistic and abusive to me.

Civilized humans have been abusing what it's called "nature" and I would call the rest of the living beings for centuries. That abuse has created a lot of problems and unbalances that sometimes come back as diseases, hunger, etc. But abusive people always say that the victim is the "abuser". That is the pattern I see clearly in Western orthodox science and worldviews. I'm not talking about the "good nature" of hippies, new agers and that kind of people, no. I'm talking about balance. What I'm saying is that we need an approach to knowledge that seeks to see the whole picture, including autocritical thinking. An ecological view if you prefer.

I'm currently reading a book about the conquest of the Ainu indigenous people by the Japanese. It's sad and discouraging to see how the greed of some people, who saw themselves as "superior to nature and the "barbarians" " provocated a lot of poverty, social problems, wars, hunger, diseases, and ultimately the destruction of the Ainu culture, because they viewed the other living beings as "resources" rather than purposeful living beings.

Most of the diseases that we know today were provocated by such expansive and violent civilizations. The Ainu started to die from smallpox and other diseases after the destruction of their natural environment by the Japanese. The same thing happened to the indigenous tribes of America. But the Western orthodox science keeps blamming "nature" against those facts. They create antibiotics and drugs to sell to the people instead of recapitulate and see what they did wrong.

When I read about any disease I go to the etiology part and almost always I get depressed. Most of the times I find something like "it is not known". If a disease didn't exist at some point, or in some cultures and it appeared it can't be random. It's logical to think that there is a cause. Is really the cause on "nature"? Is really "nature" a war? Or is the cause provocated by people who don't know how to live in the Earth? Poor research is done about this in the mainstream science. But if you connect some dots you come to the conclusion that something is very fishy here.

This is not to say that if a pathological bacteria enters your body you must let it make you suffer. Wiping them out would be a "necessary evil", a desperate move. But I like to see the big picture and ask questions that most of the people don't ask or answer. Like, are these bacterias actually our enemies? What caused them to provocate diseases? Why some cultures didn't have infectious diseases before the contact with civilization? Why some wild animals don't have those diseases? Further, have the destruction and pollution of the seas, forests and all kind of habitats something to do with todays many diseases? Is "nature" our enemy or a "random machine", or is that word a straw-man thought by some abusers to keep destroying the Earth for profit?

It's not "nature" or "us", real science and medicine should understand that such war is a delusion, and a very destructive one. It would be amazing the kind of medicine we could have if they took this into account and thought more ecologically about diseases, and not as "individual problems". That is my point. I know that in the current times, this is pure dreaming, but it's a beautiful one, I think.

Author:  dom_hend [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

Good stuff Chavalote.

This disease has really made me view the world in a different way. I feel like I've woken up compared to others around me (friends, family, girlfriend), although I'll admit, I'd prefer to go back to sleep. :]

I experienced severe side effects from Cipro as well one would NEVER imagine could be caused by a medication given to you by your doctor. Some of them I'm sure are permanent. I'm forever changed. I see everything differently now, but its too late. People around me complain about money, next vacations, promotions...and I just sit there and I'm have no idea how much it all doesn't matter as long as you wake up healthy every day. I know because I was like that too, before all this happened. I wish I could go back, I wish I could go back to believing when I go to a doctor they can help me. Now I'm scared to walk into any clinic.

Like you, I know I have an infection. 99% of people on this forum have/had/have an on and off infection. I was told for years I had no infection, when I knew it inside. I felt it. And finally it started showing up on test results. I can not remember what a normal life is anymore. It has been 4 years since this all started. I've traveled all over the world, so much emotional trauma. If someone told me 4 years ago I'd be going to China and Georgia seeking treatment, I'd laugh and call them crazy. Just like people call me crazy to this day for doing it.

I wish I could go back, I wish I could wake up one day and realize it was all a dream, but it wasn't meant to be. I wish I could go back and take back the choices that brought me here, but I can't. I used to think no, not me it can't be me. Then I realized, what the heck is so special about me...nothing. People out there live without legs, arms, born mentally challenged, and I think I'm special. LOL. I wish I could go back to sleep like everyone around me and worry about where my next vacation will be, or what next car I will buy.

Author:  Chavalote [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

Now I'm scared to walk into any clinic.

Same here. The people who still believe in the system probably would call this "an irrational fear", but it's not. It's a fear based on real experiences. The last time I came out of a clinic I had months of panic attacks and anxiety. I met a psychopath who treated me like a machine and laughed when I started to cry in fear. He made me believe that I may had some grave disease and asked me to do "more tests" to "have more data". I went to the general doctor, a guy what I know and very nice and open-minded. He said that the other specialist had no basis for such assertions. I couldn't manage the anxiety so I ignored all and went home. The test that they made was awful, I felt like a laboratory rat. I just didn't want to relate to that world anymore. And two years has passed. It looks that I had nothing, luckily. But I think the guy wanted more "data" simply for "researching" curiosity without taking into account that I am a human being, a living being, and that I was very anxious.

That wasn't related to prostatitis, it was another thing. But it made me start to think about the relationship between Western modern science and psychopathy. Most people would laugh at this also. But I can't ignore something that I have experienced myself once and once again. If you research that relationship you can see that indeed it exists. For example, Descartes, the man who is worshipped in the academic world for "bringing us rational thinking" used to think about animals as machines, he would mistreat dogs, open them alive and insert his finger in their heart to see how the contractions felt. What kind of non-psychopathic mentally healthy person would do that? I think that Western modern science attracts a lot of people like that (please, understand that of course, I'm not saying that all of people in science are psychopaths). Those are the ones who usually claim to be "rational" and who will tell you that you need to avoid "feelings to interfere" in order to be "scientific".

I clearly saw that to that psychopathic "specialist" I was like dogs for Descartes, a machine to "collect data" and nothing more. And also I was that to some of the urologists or other "specialists" who I visited.

Now, I'm more scared at the medical system, hospitals, clinics, etc., than at the diseases themselves. I simply don't want to go back there never again.

People telling you that this is "unscientific" and "irrational" shows the degree of how totalitarian and abusive "science" has become today.

I see this pretty simple, though. There is a metaphor that works to explain this. If you are living with your girlfriend and she has cheated on you more than 10 times would you remain with her? Would you still trust her? That is what happened to me with Western modern science and the medical system. Some people say that "I attack them", but it's me who was attacked (gaslighted, psychologically abused, laughed, lied, ignored, tortured, etc.). My stance is defensive rather than offensive.

Yesterday I was sad and frustrated. I was reading a critical book by Rupert Sheldrake, "The Science Delusion", in which he makes very good points, but he stills believe in things I no longer believe and I needed a more radical criticism. I then searched in Google "science + bulls**t" and I came across a book with the title "Not Even Trying: The Corruption of Real Science", in which the author explains from inside how todays "science" is not real science anymore. That kind of books at least make me feel that I'm not crazy, that there are people realizing similar things. That my fear of clinics and hospitals is rational and totally understandable. The system is dysfunctional. It's not a "subjective opinion", it's the truth. I'm not saying that there are not nice people in it, in fact there are, like the general doctor who helped me to calm down after the encounter with the psychopathic doctor, but from my experience I can tell that those people are the exception and not the rule. I want to make clear that I'm not criticising individuals, I'm criticising the basis of a system.

I suggest you to read those books also. They are a good weapon to defend yourself against the cynical people who treat you as a fool because you don't trust in the system anymore. It won't solve the prostatitis or the system problems, but they help psychologically, at least in my case. It helps me to don't feel so alone.

Author:  presto423 [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

The victim of a disease is often susceptible to not wanting to blame or not blaming the cause of the disease. That's part of humanizing, and is a central theme in today's medical, scientific, and other fields of study. I think it is a part of why cures to cancer, and cures to disease, are not being found. I'm not merely an amalgamous 'living being' bound with 'nature' in wholistic and self-preserving union. I'm separate and distinct in being human, having a life to protect, and not fully understanding my abilities to do so. Blaming is often seen as a solution, and it is a well misunderstood action / concept that frequently doesn't delete the suffering and pain of a disease.

I never said you said nature is never against humans. However, a generalization such as presuming that bacteria are not actively attacking their victim is a sign of capitulation to something unseen and still much unknown. Bacteria do not only cause illness and death in humans, but also in a ton of other things. The "let nature take its course" approach doesn't always work, and is often the basis for an easily dismissible, suggested solution. Just ask the docs. Got the flu? 'Let it run its course'.

Debating the merits of nature or non-nature is how antibiotics came to be, and they're effective and ineffective, so arguing for a return to 'nature' or aligning with 'it' can be just as flawed and dangerous with the utterly presumptuous assertions that can come with it.

Author:  Chavalote [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

I think that you are not understanding my point. Maybe I'm not explaining myself well.

First of all, I want to make clear that I'm not talking of the "we are all one" of some new age followers or "ecologists". We have boundaries. We are individual beings. But at the same time we are inside networks of life deeply complex. Our body is itself an "ecosystem" full of tiny living beings. One thing doesn't contradict the other.

Also, I'm not talking about "not wanting to blame", precisely my point is to blame what you must blame and not an scapegoat ("nature" in this case). I'm not saying that you need to allow pathogenic bacterias to invade you and make you sick because they are "one with the universe". I'm suggesting that maybe that something made those bacterias "against us" in the first place.

When they discovered bacterias they thought that they were all like little monsters wanting us dead, wanting to "conquer the world". Then they discovered "good bacterias" in the gut. Bacterias that help us to live and be healthy. The bacteria that was detected in my cultures, enterococcus faecalis, help us to digest the food if they are in their place and healthy. They are normal flora in our guts, or that is what the doctors told me.

When they discovered bacterias they assumed that they were enemies because they already believed that it was "us against nature". They didn't stop and think, what if those tiny things are also sick? What if they are out of place because something wrong we did that altered the balance? They simply looked for a way to kill them. But the bacterias got resistant and now many antibiotics don't work.

I insist. This is not to avoid blamming. It's to be accurate about blamming the right culprits.

In fact, they don't investigate the causes of most of the diseases, not because they want to avoid pointing fingers at culprits, but because that would put an end to a lot of profitable business. We know that a lot of toxic stuff that comes from pollution causes cancer and other pathologies. Is that really "nature's fault"? Are the diseases some kind of cosmic curses or can them be avoidable? I'm quite sure that diseases like cancer are caused by the modern industrial civilization and not by "nature". Finding the cure would mean to find first the cause (culprit) and eliminate it. That means that if for example, toxic smoke from cars causes cancer they must stop that immediately. But would the bosses of the cars companies allow that? Would the scientists be honest and fight for the truth and the right things to be done to avoid that horrible disease? It seems that we are far from that ideal scenario. So, they keep blamming "nature" or the patients in an endless cicle to avoid facing the truth. Because facing the truth means fight the abusers and stop them. I hope you see what I'm trying to say.

Let me tell you a little story before continuying, so you can see that what I'm saying it not some BS that I made up. The only time a doctor cured me was when I was a kid in the 80s. Science wasn't still so corrupt and it seems that many doctors were really interested in curing or avoiding diseases rather than selling drugs. I got a nasty infection in my feet thumb. It was chronic, and it was awful. It was constantly in flesh and blood and full of pus and the simple brushing with my socks hurted as hell. They gave me creams and antibiotics but nothing worked. I went always with a gauze in my thumb full of pus and creams. One day, a podiatrist told my mother that it was caused by an allergy to some synthetic rubber of my tennis shoes. He said that a lot of kids were suffering that kind of allergy. He told my mother to stop using that kind of tennis shoes and buy another without that material. My thumbs started to improve and I got cured. I have never had the same problem again. Was "nature" the cause? No. The cause was industrial. Now, that makes me think, how many causes like that are beyond diseases believed by mainstream "scientists" to be "natural"? It's a very important question, indeed.

If bacterias in normal conditions are so bad and deadly why native americans could live more than 80 years without antibiotics? Why we survived for millenia before those drugs? We would have got extinct long ago.

Now we have all of those new age folks blamming the victim, you know. Because nobody seems interested in find out the real cuprits of diseases, the toxic pendulum sways between blamming "nature" and the victims themselves, with cruel thoughts like saying that someone got this or that disease, or even died of it because "he/she let negative thoughts enter his/her mind", but the real abusers, the people who are provocating diseases with toxic stuff and altering the natural order are not blamed.

So, I'm with you in that point. A honest science should go till the last consequences to discover the real causes or culprits of diseases. And if they are some big companies like Monsanto (just an example) they should shut them off as a crime against all of us.

I see it like a chain. Surely, these enterococcus faecalis seem to be the culprit of my chronic prostatitis, but I don't stop in that link. I go to the next and I ask myself, what made these bacterias pathogenic? What made them be so resistant to antibiotics? Was the world, let's say 4000 years before, full with men with the prostate infected with the same pathogenic bacterias? Have the orcas and dolphins in the sea the same problems with those bacterias? What about monkeys in the woods? Wolves? Bears? All of them have bacterias causing them to suffer these symptoms because "nature is cruel"?

Don't get me wrong. There are cruel things in nature. Natural enemies do exist. I want to make clear that I'm not talking in the same terms as a "romantic ecologist". I'm interested in knowing the truth, the real culprits. And from what I have seen, experienced, read, and investigated, almost all of the diseases that now we suffer, seem to have been caused by this economic/political system. I see clearly the link between the starting of abuse on nature and the increasing in diseases, specially epidemics like smallpox or tuberculosis (why "indians" living in the wild are so vulnerable to them?).

Of course, knowing that won't cure us. I'm the first who want to get rid of these bacterias. I just want people to see the big picture. I'm tired of corrupt "scientists" blamming "nature" for all of the problems we face (sometimes provocated by themselves) while the system remains "sacred" and unchallenged. And they get the perfect excuse to keep abusing and manipulating other living beings (like an abuser making you angry and then beating you "because you got angry"). I am more scared at nuclear plants, cars pollution or antibiotics than to any poisonous plant or animal. The hatred and misunderstanding of nature is deeply rooted in Western modern science, and as I see it, that have provocated a lot of bias leading to diseases and destruction.

I would like to find a way to clean this infection of my prostate, of course. But I also would like to find the "rubber in the tennis shoes" that is causing it to first, avoid it to happen again, and second, avoid it to happen to anybody in the future. You know the cause/culprit, you know the cure. But todays so called "scientists" seem not very interested in that.

Author:  dom_hend [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

Yea, funny enough I'm forced to go back to the medical system. I've made the decision to have this thing removed. The possibility of a normal life is too much for me to give up (as small as it may be after such a surgery, althought the doc I'm going to has really good numbers). I know the comfortable thing (for lack of better word) is for me to not take it out and wait for a miracle, but I've decided I am done waiting. 4 years taken from my late 20s. Enough, I'm taking the chance as I know mine is 100% bacterial. That and thru all my travels across the world, I do not believe in non bacterial prostatitis any more short for a few exceptions which I think you CLEARLY now if you have muscle aches vs infection.

Author:  presto423 [ Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My story, chronic prostatitis associated with weak orgas

Aside from the debacle of a debate about mainstream medicine and nature... dom_hend, I think you're jumping too far too fast. Back up, or take a breather, and rethink what you're considering doing. There is non-bacterial prostatitis, just as there is fibromyalgia not caused by bacteria or fungus or viruses. There is a plethora of conditions caused by muscle tension and repetitive stress, even continuous contraction of muscles. If you're going to do it though, are you also going to preserve your seed for later? The drawbacks and difficulties of removal are far worse risks than trying to get a cure from a combination of techniques and medicine / herbs. There's no telling how bad that could be, including continuation of chronic pain, which is recorded on this forum. I've suffered with it for at least the same amount of time, and I'm in my 30's. It's not worth it to sink the sub when other emergency measures haven't been attempted or approached yet.

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